œ2000 frame - is it worth it?

carlstone · June 2007

If it were me I'd go for the Dura ace equipped Planet X with carbon 50 wheels for racing (keep the reynolds alta race for training). œ2400 and you've got one hell of a bike and œ1000 left over to spend on Assos or Rapha to make your cycling a joy. Also I don't think you can buy a planet X frame on its own, but you would be able to get Planet X to build one up to your requirements.

My bikes:
http://www.filehigh.com/viewimg.php?f=29099&i=291574
http://www.filehigh.com/viewimg.php?f=29099&i=317809

mr_hippo · June 2007

What, pray tell me, do I have to be jealous of? When did I ever say that Rudd or anyone else was 'not worthy of the bikes that they ride'? If you are trying to say that I am jealous because I cannot afford it, all I will say is that I am too big to be bullied and too rich to be bribed!

http://bangkokhippo.blogspot.com/

Ex-XXL weigh-in 9/10 June: Update published: Monday 11 June

Unknown · June 2007

"the difference between a 'good' frame and an 'outstanding' frame is its performance in extremis - hurtling down a huge alpine descent, or high speed over cobbles, or with a powerful rider on a tight criterium course. The average rider just won't get to push the frame that much, so won't experience the full benefit of the extra grand or so."

THIS seems the key to me (plus an extra grand for a 50p transfer!). Of course, if you REALLY want that decal and you have the money, fine. I'd always rather have 2 (or more!) good bikes than 1 very good, however much I was spending.

I've spent or wasted according to standpoint œ'000s on LOTS of bikes in last 4 years. Doesn't worry me. Only have ben spent on something else, drink in my case. You can't take it with you remains a valid philosophy - and I've known enough folk who have died early while putting what they want to do off until next year/decade/when they retire or whatever not to fall into that trap.

All that said, Time framesets look very nice - and don't seem to see many out and about!

d.j.
"Like a true nature's child,
We were born,
Born to drink mild"

The Bosscp · June 2007

To be honest, they don't get proportionally better with price, they get tend very quickly towards a maximum which is that of the most expensive, i.e. a œ1000 frame will probably be 95% as good as a œ3000 one, which in turn will be 95% as good as a œ6000 one, but the only way to get that extra 5% is to spend that much more, and that might be the only way to squeeze a win out of someone in a race who's the same standard as you are. Hence why really expensive frames/bikes are only really relevant if you're serious about racing.

Mystique · June 2007

I think it's all about balance - The frame & groupset etc should be of equal quality & complement each other.

Do œ4000 wheels really make a Citroen Saxo look sooooo much better, and why would anyone put cheapo steel wheels on a Ferrari?

Remember, it's not a frame with wheels & groupset & saddle & bars...It's a bike!!

I've not been right since my karma ran over my dogma

carlstone · June 2007

To add to my earlier point and go some way to answering your OP. I read somewhere recently that Nicole Cooke loves zooming around the roads on her training runs on her stock Raleigh Airlite Carbon bike, link:

http://www.raleigh.co.uk/bikedetails.aspx?ID=2918

Now correct me if I'm wrong but this looks to be exactly the same far eastern frame that Planet X use, link:

http://www.planet-x-bikes.com/HiResBike ... t-x126.JPG

Now assuming she is not telling porkies (because Raleigh are her sponser). If the frame is good enough for her it's certainly good enough for me and probably good enough for you.

However if spending œ3,500 is your goal and not having a big name in your bike shed will be a constant irritation I would blow the whole lot (including œ1,000 for the sticker) on a top name.

My bikes:
http://www.filehigh.com/viewimg.php?f=29099&i=291574
http://www.filehigh.com/viewimg.php?f=29099&i=317809

simmocp · June 2007

I'm not sure what the problem is really. You can surely buy your dream bike for that money, Rudd, without compromising on anything. If you've decided to part with œ3500 you can get a Cervelo with dura ace and a top pair of wheels. A friend has just paid less than that for a record equiped Cervelo R3, admittedly with Eastons not Zipps, though the same shop has Giant advanced ISP, DA and Zipp 404 for œ3000.
Whether you want to spend that much is your issue, but atop bike is within your grasp! Go for it.

simmo

Unknown · June 2007

As I recently noted elsewhere, I had a close up look at one of those carbon Raleighs last week. For a grand complete, the frame really is very nice. Were I going to buy a carbon, at that sort of price it would be the Raleigh! Won't see many others I guess! And appropriate to Nottingham!

d.j.
"Like a true nature's child,
We were born,
Born to drink mild"

another jacko · June 2007

If you've already got a very good bike, for a large amount of money you could make a virtually unnoticeable performance improvement. There is a potentially substantial 'emotional' enhancement to your cycling pleasure, but I suspect that would be quite short lived once the new bike gets scratched, dirty or superceded by newer technology.

How about enhancing your cycling pleasure by broadening your cycling experiences into the 'dark side'. For example, œ3.5K would get you a 10kg, top of the range full suspension racing mountain bike - which would give you the opportunity for a completely different kind of 2 wheel thrill. The same money would buy a very good mid range full sus MTB AND a top of the range touring bike, or a tandem, or a recumbent, or a fixed gear or a good bike for your partner to encourage him/her to ride with you etc etc.

My suggestion, therefore, is to go the multiple bike route with different kinds of bike for different purposes and different moods. The benefit will last for years.

Unknown · June 2007

If you enjoy the pleasure of buying and owning such a machine then its your money and your choice!!! Although will you soon look towards the Scott œ7k bike at 14lb weight?
I see grannies driving Mini coopers at Corsa speeds, they just enjoy having a nice car , ditto for you and your bike, enjoy!

JamesB MTB

Eurostar · June 2007

Rudd, I think I have found a no-compromise wonderbike that's only slightly over your budget - the Canyon Ultimate CF Pro. www.canyon.com/_en/roadbikes/index.html?b=131 You buy it direct from the factory in Germany so it's a bargain - top quality carbon frame, the best wheels in the world and Campy Record for 5700 euros or 3800 quid. A similar spec from other manufacturers would cost far more. The wheels alone would cost œ1900 from a British bike shop. The whole thing weighs half a kilo less than the UCI weight limit and is team issue for Unibet.

I suggest you ask your question at the weightweenies forum - there are plenty of people there who own the bikes on your short list who will give you helpful constructive answers instead of the silly squabbling over here.

I share your enthusiasm for carbon bling and hope you get your dream bike. If you do get Lightweight wheels they will be a revelation - no pedalling effort, and such beautiful bits of craftmanship you'll wake up every morning happy to own them. They last forever - Zabel's had the same set for 5 years.

Unknown · June 2007

Wow, yes, that Canyon is very nice.

d.j.
"Like a true nature's child,
We were born,
Born to drink mild"

dbg · June 2007

You are joking right? the decals on that bike are hideous, compare with a Wilier Cento - now that's class.

currieinahurry · June 2007

but those canyons are extremely good bikes in terms of performance.
tikka

hi my name is adam... and i have a problem with posting on cycling forums.

Eurostar · June 2007

Actually if it was me I think I'd go for the 9.0 SL in plain white with Dura Ace and FSA. A few hundred quid cheaper. And well reviewed.

Ooh, it's fun spending other people's money!

Eurostar · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dbg

You are joking right? the decals on that bike are hideous, compare with a Wilier Cento - now that's class.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The Wilier's a real looker but it's œ4700 built up with Record and some very ho-hum Fulcrum Zeros. The more I think about the Canyon with Lightweights the better it seems. Very hard to think of anything you'd ever want to upgrade really.

yenrodcp · June 2007

Rudd.

If I had your options I'd simply get a custom.

Reckon out the dimentions of yopur bikes and get them built up or go for made-to-measure [?]

Go for a great bike but save too !

[;)] 'tuono nel mio cuore...[:)]

Eurostar · June 2007

Well, there aren't many custom carbon framebuilders and I think they're all way over his budget.

babyjebus · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> To add to my earlier point and go some way to answering your OP. I read somewhere recently that Nicole Cooke loves zooming around the roads on her training runs on her stock Raleigh Airlite Carbon bike <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

She must have been up my way this week then, because there was a ladies size Airlite leaning up outside the greasy spoon at the Bakers Arms on Wednesday afternoon. Unlocked too, because no one messes with Nicole.

Despite the ridiculousness of this entire thread, I too agree that the Canyon looks luvverly. I can't imagine why anyone would be daft enough to spend 4k on a stereo, when they could spend that on music.

Unknown · June 2007

This is all very worrying. Made me start ogling carbon frames: Daccordi offer the best looker I've found so far!

d.j.
"Like a true nature's child,
We were born,
Born to drink mild"

dbg · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The Wilier's a real looker but it's œ4700 built up with Record<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Not from Comobike it ain't - œ3362 with Record & Zero's BARGAIN!!

AcademicX · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dbg

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The Wilier's a real looker but it's œ4700 built up with Record<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Not from Comobike it ain't - œ3362 with Record & Zero's BARGAIN!!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Don't forget you've got to add 20% Italian VAT to that figure (or pay the VAT when it enters the UK + handling charges).

Still, œ4,035 is still better than œ4,700 [:)]

grazer · June 2007

Ruud, IMO buy the bestist frame you like the look of. Then buy the nicest set of wheels. Groupsets wont make u go faster, so if u need to save (maybe u dont) then go for ultegra, chorus etc.

Enjoy every minute of it, whether it be in RP or fancier destination

I was between an R3 and a Look 585 (went for the latter).

jedster · June 2007

I can't imagine why anyone would be daft enough to spend 4k on a stereo, when they could spend that on music.

don't really want to drag this off topic but
a) that's a fair point
b) but I tend to like to listen to music that I like repeatedly. I have about 1000 CDs and LPs accumulated over 25 years. Some people do have much bigger collections but they have plenty of recordings that they've hardly listened to (of course I have a few of those too).
c) I once listened to a œ100k stereo - œ4k is not that much - probably a low-end carbon frame with Ultegra in cycling terms! Most people who are not keen cyclists probably think œ1500 is a lot of money for a bike

I'll stop the non-cycling related stuff there.

J

massive head · June 2007

Your a lucky man Rudd my car is not worth that much plus I've got some serious money troubles at the mo but good luck to you and enjoy it.

Me, with œ3500 would buy a new bike, take my two daughters to Euro Disney and take my wife out to dinner.

A baby elephant stole my bicycle

Rudd · June 2007

firstly apologies for not replying to sooner to all the replies to my thread- i've been out of web contact for a few days. Many thanks for all the replies I found them all very useful and I guess I'd summarise my thoughts as:

I didn't mean to boast and apologies if it came across like that. I actually think that 3K is a huge amount of cash to spend so I was looking to the forum for advice to make the best purchasing decision

I posted this under beginers partly out of habit, because I consider my self a beginner and mostly because I thought that this part of the forum would get the best 'rounded' response

I really appreciate the comments about how spending more money doesn't generate proportional performance improvements and will give this real consideration

I still think that bike ownership is about both the performance and the pleasure of owning a superb piece of design and i guess where the debate lies is what the balance between the two are!

Again thanks for all the replies.

Eurostar · June 2007

Well done for starting a popular controversial thread. Your next challenge is to buy what you want and not give a toss what anyone thinks. There will always be someone tutting that you could have saved a grand by waiting for the sales or not getting a fashionable brand.

I'm surprised nobody's picked me up on this, so I'll have to dob myself in - I strongly advised you to buy the Canyon because of its Lightweight wheels. But they're for tubs only! Imagine recommending tubs in a beginner's thread, or to someone who doesn't have a team car following them round Richmond Park!

Sorry, I'm bored this afternoon. Just trying to argue with myself.

currieinahurry · June 2007

but you could buy that bike and sell the wheels for 1800 quid or so although id keep them and buty a set of handbuilts and be set up for life!
tikka

hi my name is adam... and i have a problem with posting on cycling forums.

currieinahurry · June 2007

and anyway in the old days 'BEGINNERS' rode tubs so why not now? its just a different way of doing things.
tikka

hi my name is adam... and i have a problem with posting on cycling forums.

pliptrot · June 2007

Surely the point is - and I apologise for bringing this old chestnut out - we're all bloody daft for seriously considering paying 3 grand on a bike. Mrs Campagnolo and anyone with shares in the Taiwan bicycle industry (Cervelos are turned out of the same plant where many far less expensive frames are built, in Taiwan) are no doubt delighted at our gullibility. There's a saying out there that suggests too many of us know the price of everything and the value of nothing. I will add no more, other than to remind you that the proprietors of most of the companies mentioned in this thread almost certainly do not have to worry about a mortgage, because we've already paid it for them.

œ2000 frame - is it worth it?

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