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œ2000 frame - is it worth it?

RuddRudd Posts: 264
edited June 2007 in Road beginners
Its a nice problem to have but still a problem!I am looking at buying a new bike and probably spend œ3-3.5k, so I really want to make the right choice. I've been looking at De Rosa's, BMC's and Cervelo's among others but will def be going for the full carbon fibre thing. My question - is it worth buying a really good frame ie Cervelo R3 and then getting good finishing kit and wheels or better to get a good frame ie Planet X or Condor (both Carbon Fibre) and then spec it up with really good finishing kit and mega light wheels like Zipp303's?

I don't race so would be prepared to sacrifce performance for comfort.

What do you all think?
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Posts

  • FnaarFnaar Posts: 1,985
    It won't fill the chasm within. [:)]

    <b><font color="blue"><font face="Comic Sans MS">kinckers kanckers konckers</font id="Comic Sans MS"></font id="blue"></b> [:D]
  • monty_dogcpmonty_dogcp Posts: 382
    Don't spend œ2k on a frame if you're only going to kit it out with Tiagra/105 for example. You can always cut a few corners with the finishing kit and look to upgrade to things like carbon bars and wheels in the future. If your heart's set on a bling frame, then go for it - you'll always hanker after it in the future if you don't, but make sure your budget stretches to a decent groupset and wheels to go with it.
  • I've got a few really expensive frames and they are very different to cheaper frames.

    spend your money how you like, but you could be happy on a SCR or roubaix for lots less

    Mleh Mleh Mleh
  • System_1System_1 Posts: 513
    It would be nice to have the very best finishing kit but the heart and soul of any bike is it's frame and wheels, everything else is just there so you can make it move, point it in the right direction and have somewhere to plonk your a**e.
  • RuddRudd Posts: 264
    I take the point that having a top end frame helps to make a dream bike that you really want to go and ride. I guess what I'm driving at, if you set the emotive aspect aside, is will a very amateur weekend cyclist really notice the differednce between a colnago and planet X??
  • NoodleyNoodley Posts: 1,725
    Rudd, what kind of cycling do you do?
  • "will a very amateur weekend cyclist really notice the differednce between a colnago and planet X??"

    Have to say that in my opinion and (admittedly quite limited) experience, no.

    The only carbon I've had was a TCR - about mid-range price at the time I suppose. It was lovely - beyond my abilities to exploit to the full and I cannot believe that one at a grand more would have made ANY difference that I could have noticed! Mind you, given their usual high VFM ratings a Giant probably as good as the more expensive brands!

    Actually, I'd have a Giant.



    d.j.
    "Like a true nature's child,
    We were born,
    Born to drink mild"
  • RuddRudd Posts: 264
    Noodley,

    I cycle for fitness, but I also love the mechanics and look of my current bike ( Condor Squadra) I probably get to Richmond park twice a week in the evening for a 30mile circuit and get out at the weekend for a 50 mile + at least three times a month.
  • NoodleyNoodley Posts: 1,725
    censored , I was gonna suggest getting yourself along to Condor [;)]

    Anyway, if I was in your position of being able to spend money in the region you are speaking of, I would probably go for a Cervelo frame (no matter how often I see them they still send shivers down my spine - unlike some other top frames which have an initial appeal which can soon disappear after a few viewings) with good wheels and a decent enough (although not extortionately priced) groupset - unless you could pick up a top of the range groupset for much the same price as 'lower' groupset which is sometimes possible.

    (and if you have any change, my ill Nigerian uncle requires a lung transplant which costs a lot of money - you sound like a nice guy, so if you could find it in your heart to send me your bank details [;)])

    Enjoy buying it. [:)]
  • peejay78peejay78 Posts: 3,378
    seems like a lot of money when you already have a perfectly good bike.

    winter: http://tinyurl.com/2xkbbs
    summer: http://tinyurl.com/2hsagv
  • NoodleyNoodley Posts: 1,725
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by peejay78</i>

    seems like a lot of money when you already have a perfectly good bike.

    winter: http://tinyurl.com/2xkbbs
    summer: http://tinyurl.com/2hsagv
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    aye, and? [:D]
  • currieinahurrycurrieinahurry Posts: 2,695
    lol if you have the money mate go for it! but id say you should choose more on fit than anything else. so get yourself fitted and that should make it easier.
    tikka

    hi my name is adam... and i have a problem with posting on cycling forums.
    hi my name is adam... and i have a problem with posting on cycling forums.
  • RuddRudd Posts: 264
    Peejay,

    Agree squadra is a great bike. I love riding it and it's leagues above my old Bianchi and there is the problem. Its a problem because i really noticed the differnce between the all alu frame and the semi carbon fibre one and now I want to take another step up. The squadra won't be left on the scrap heap, it will become my winter bike. In my view if you can afford it, AND you'll ride it AND your girlfriend doesn't know how much it cost then its a viable option!
  • cougiecougie Posts: 22,512
    Once you get over a certain level then the rewards diminish drastically.

    For the price of a 2k frame - you could get two CF Giant frames as raced by the pros. And only bother with CF wheels if you wanna go the whole hog, use tubs and the grand you saved on the frame would pay for 20 or 30 punctures on them.
  • AcademicXAcademicX Posts: 152
    A clubmate has the BMC Pro SLC01, it's a fantastic looking bike. Also has a set of Zipp 404 wheels on it. A lot of money for a bike but everything is relative, my work colleagues think I'm crazy when I tell them how much my Wilier cost. If you can afford it & it gives you pleasure then spend your money (as my Gran used to say "you can't take it with you" that said she'd probably turn in her grave if she knew how much money I've spent of bikes [:)])
  • NoodleyNoodley Posts: 1,725
    The main thing is to get a bike you will ride and enjoy - no point getting something you feel you "need" to "upgrade" as many seem to. I am happy with my bikes as they are what I can afford and allow me to enjoy riding. I know they are not the top spec but they do me fine - I reckon if you can afford to pay for a bike (which will still be considerably less than the average second hand car) you should get what you want.

    But, then again (having re-read the OP), if you are looking for comfort maybe Ti is what you need [}:)][;)] (that's what I am looking at for my longer rides of over 300k)
  • Philip DavisPhilip Davis Posts: 965
    Not having ridden too many top of the range bikes I can't comment from personal experience, but it seems to me that the difference between a 'good' frame and an 'outstanding' frame is its performance in extremis - hurtling down a huge alpine descent, or high speed over cobbles, or with a powerful rider on a tight criterium course. The average rider just won't get to push the frame that much, so won't experience the full benefit of the extra grand or so.

    I remember a few years ago reading an American review where they tested a good alu frame from a non-pimpy brand against a Merlin Cielo (awesomely expensive ti-carbon blend). While the Merlin drew the gasps, they concluded that it was only in very limited circumstances that the riders felt a difference in the saddle.

    I hate to advocate drugs, violence or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.' Hunter S. Thompson

    I hate to advocate drugs, violence or insanity to anyone, but they\'ve always worked for me.\' Hunter S. Thompson
  • GrifcpGrifcp Posts: 283
    Thats a good post Philip. Rudd....whatever you decide, take your time and do your research. The bike world is one where you can pay 3-400% more for EXACTLY THE SAME FRAME depending on what sticker is on it.
  • mr_hippomr_hippo Posts: 1,051
    You have a perfectly good bike, you cycle about 100 miles/week for fitness and yet you want to spend more than œ3000 on a new bike, why? You say "In my view if you can afford it, AND you'll ride it AND your girlfriend doesn't know how much it cost then its a viable option!" As my Grandma used to say 'He's got more money than sense! 'Doing about 100 miles a week, most of it pootling around Richmond Park is called 'showing off' (Look at me, I've got this œ3000 blingtastic toy), not riding. I neither know nor care how serious you and your girlfriend are but is keeping secrets the way to go? When and if you get married, how will you explain that you told your wife that the new bike cost you only œ400 when there is a big œ3000 hole in your bank account?
    If you do get your new bike, will you post the same type of question in 12 month's time but substitute the 2008 frame material - carbon is so last year - and the new Shimano electronic gear system?

    http://bangkokhippo.blogspot.com/

    Ex-XXL weigh-in 9/10 June: Update published: Monday 11 June
  • NoodleyNoodley Posts: 1,725
    Give him a break! The "girlfriend" comment is what most cyclists experience whe partners do not understand...it does not matter what kind of cycling one does. There is no need to criticise other cyclists re money spent - as I said earlier I am happy with my bikes and others should be happy with theirs - whther that is a cheap bike or a dear bike.
  • mr_hippomr_hippo Posts: 1,051
    Noodley, just as you are entitled to air your opinion, I am also allowed to air mine,

    http://bangkokhippo.blogspot.com/

    Ex-XXL weigh-in 9/10 June: Update published: Monday 11 June
  • peejay78peejay78 Posts: 3,378
    my girlfriend thinks my bike cost about œ300 less than it did. i'm ok with that. it's more to do with the fact that it's hard to explain just where œ1200 goes when all she sees is a bicycle, and bicycles normally cost œ80. she said it's my money anyway, as long as the mortgage is paid and she's kept in shoes and we're happy. she spends more money on clothes in a year than i spend on bikes, i think it's ok.

    i'd like a cervelo, or something like that, but being honest, it's a step too far for me, i'd be entering the realms of dentistry or the merchant banker popping into evans on a brompton and coming out with a madone; buying a bike that i have absolutely no need for whatsoever, that costs far far too much money, and again - personally - because this is opinion, even if it is a bit OT - i'd question what the money was going on and why i was succumbing to such materialistic desire, because without racing on it, or being able to tell the difference, what's the point? it took me bloody ages to justify the condor in the first place. if you get the bling bike, good luck to you, it will be a grand piece of highly engineered kit and much fun to ride.



    winter: http://tinyurl.com/2xkbbs
    summer: http://tinyurl.com/2hsagv
  • RuddRudd Posts: 264
    mr hippo,

    quite right you are entitled to an opinion, i just disagree with it! i don't think its really fair to bracket richmond park riders as pootlers, for those of us that live in london its one of the few places we can get to without getting in a car or cycling for an hour plus through urban sprawl. as it happens i did all my early riding on on the steep climbs of dartmoor. when it comes to money i subscribe to the mars bar theory - if you want a mars bar and it costs say 50p and you have the money you buy it. following thelogic if you want a cervelo and it costs 3.5k and you have the money, you buy it. humour me here! [;)]
  • I'd feel a bit sick if I'd paid œ3.5k for a bike and then saw the price dramatically reduced in the autumn as the 2008 frames/bikes are announced.
  • peejay78peejay78 Posts: 3,378
    you can't ride a mars bar, i don't think.

    unless you're marianne faithful and wrapped in a rug.

    winter: http://tinyurl.com/2xkbbs
    summer: http://tinyurl.com/2hsagv
  • Rudd

    Your original title for the thread asks whether a œ2000 frame is worth it? Every response apart from your own will be subjective as only you can decide as its your money...

    Is there a difference between a sub œ1000 frame and a œ2000 frame - well, I have recently upgraded from a Kuota Kharma to a Look 595 and in this example, I would say yes, although the difference is not massive in most areas.

    The Look is better finished, feels slightly stiffer but also smoother (down in part to the seat post design?) and is lighter. The key difference I would say in this example is around the fork - the Look feels much more solid at the front end and inspires real confidence when descending. Worth œ2k? For me yes - I love the look of the thing (excuse the pun), its a current pro peleton team bike and its a real motivator to get out there and ride, even when I am tired or time is short. I will not race this one, but I have done a couple of club 10's (with a PB!!) but it will mostly be used on longer rides and Sportives. Although its a full on race bike, its still pretty comfortable for 6+ hour rides and as such, exactly what I was looking for.

    Rich
  • mr_hippomr_hippo Posts: 1,051
    Rudd
    What was the point of your post? "Should I buy De Rosa, Cervelo or BMC?" The replies will be 'get this', 'get that' or 'don't get any of those but get this' but you already know that, don't you? Are you any further forward?
    Did you post to increase your bragging rights? 'Look at me, I've got œX to spend on a bike.'
    Have you already decided to buy one and to justify your decision, you are asking forum members to say 'Go ahead'?
    'If you have the money buy it'? There's a world of a difference between 50p and œ3500. Just because you have the money now, does not mean that you have to spend it.
    rudd, please do not take my opinion as a personal attack! Do what your heart (and pocket) tells you to do

    peejay, why is it hard to explain spending on bikes?
    "That's a nice dress you're wearing, dear, Is it new?"
    "Yes and it only cost me œ89.99"
    "I saw the same one in Petticoat Lane for œ7.99"
    "WHAT! It may look the same, the material is cheap, the cut is shoddy and the workmanship is censored !"
    "Well, the same thing is true with bikes, this Cervelo at œ3000 may look similar to the œ200 Flying Peacock but it's like comparing your lovely dress with that Petticoat Lane censored ."

    http://bangkokhippo.blogspot.com/

    Ex-XXL weigh-in 9/10 June: Update published: Monday 11 June
  • jedsterjedster Posts: 1,717
    Rudd,

    To be fair, you asked a perfectly sensible question, to paraphrase - "if I were spending œ3 grand, how should I split it between the frame and the rest". Frankly I haven't a clue.

    Somehow the thread morphed into "is it worth spending œ3 grand on a bike" which of course is really subjective. A couple of comments though:

    1. I like music and I like listening to it on a good hifi. My hifi is mainly 10 years old, some was second hand and I probably paid œ4k in total. It would probably cost œ7k to replace. Is it worth it? Well yes to me, no to most people. Making a significant improvement to it would cost another œ4k - disappearing over my VFM limit

    2. On the other hand, sports equipment carries another risk (if you care about these things) - "the all the gear and no idea" problem. I ski reasonably well. When I see people who can't really ski using high end kit I admit I rather look down upon them (it's perhaps different in skiing in that moderate skiers would ski better on mid range gear than they can on high end gear). I like cycling but I don't race and I'd feel a bit of an censored being passed by much better cyclists on much cheaper bikes.

    Oh and another thing, why do people post these kind of questions on the beginners board?

    J
  • <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mr_hippo</i>

    Rudd
    What was the point of your post? "Should I buy De Rosa, Cervelo or BMC?" The replies will be 'get this', 'get that' or 'don't get any of those but get this' but you already know that, don't you? Are you any further forward?
    Did you post to increase your bragging rights? 'Look at me, I've got œX to spend on a bike.'
    Have you already decided to buy one and to justify your decision, you are asking forum members to say 'Go ahead'?
    'If you have the money buy it'? There's a world of a difference between 50p and œ3500. Just because you have the money now, does not mean that you have to spend it.
    rudd, please do not take my opinion as a personal attack! Do what your heart (and pocket) tells you to do

    peejay, why is it hard to explain spending on bikes?
    "That's a nice dress you're wearing, dear, Is it new?"
    "Yes and it only cost me œ89.99"
    "I saw the same one in Petticoat Lane for œ7.99"
    "WHAT! It may look the same, the material is cheap, the cut is shoddy and the workmanship is censored !"
    "Well, the same thing is true with bikes, this Cervelo at œ3000 may look similar to the œ200 Flying Peacock but it's like comparing your lovely dress with that Petticoat Lane censored ."

    http://bangkokhippo.blogspot.com/

    Ex-XXL weigh-in 9/10 June: Update published: Monday 11 June
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">


    I think the OP explains his point very clearly. He's asking, 'If you have œ3.5k to spend on a bike is it better to spend relatively more on the frame or the finishing kit?'

    mr hippo, that's a fair question, not 'bragging' or 'showing off'.
    your comments smack of jealousy. I've never understood cyclists who enjoy identifying other cyclists they deem not worthy of the bikes that they ride. You still have to pedal a œ3k bike.

    If you can afford a bling bike, good luck to you. We all know that the real world performance difference between a œ1k and a œ3k road bike is minimal, but there is lots of pleasure to be had owning and riding a technological work of art, as some of the very high-end bikes undoubtedly are.
  • I saw someone in a traffic jam driving a Lambo, he clearly couldn't afford it and hadn't told his wife it cost that much. Also he isn't a formula one driver and just drives on normal roads not race tracks so he can't really justify it as he can't tell the difference between that and a Skoda.

    So I kick a big dent in his door to learn him.

    People are free to spend their money how they like, the OP asked a valid question of whether to spend his money on the frame or components, he wasn't bragging. Some people on here sound almost jealous, you should be happy with what you have got, if you're not, stop complaining other people have it better and do something about it.
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