why only me officer?

markinengland · May 2007

I think that if you refuse to sign or give name and address to an officer when reasonably asked to do so you can be arrested, taken to the station and asked once again! The fact that you are not a motorist has nothing to do with it.
Again, I think if you refuse to stop when ordered to do so you are committing a criminal offence and can be arrested and banged up!
Nowadays cops are out to fill personal targets and are much less likely to listen to reason and use their discretion. A basic attitude of "Sorry Officer" is still more likley to get you let go with a telling off though. An arsy attitude tends to wee them off and make them all the more ready to get you for anything going! To be honest, wouldn't you faced with the same situation?

Mark

alexwcp · May 2007

I agree that having an attitude doesn't sound like the best idea, anyway I'm sure I'd be too much of a wuss to be anything but scared and highly apologetic when stopped by the police. However, given the situation described I would also be fuming angry, certainly after the fact. What you did may technically be illegal, but to me the 'technically' is important here. Like someone said earlier what you did seems to be against the word of the law rather than its spirit, and I feel that even the police should apply some kind of common sense and perspective to the decision of whether to stop and fine someone in this kind of situation. If someone blazes through a blatantly red light light at 15+ mph merely to save themselves a few seconds, then please do pull them up for it, but this doesn't sound anything like what happened here.

--
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/krakow81/
Live Music Reviews: http://butnotasweknowit.blogspot.com/

Tom Butcher · May 2007

If Jules just moved ahead of the traffic then how were 2 vehicles able to follow - sounds more like they moved right out into the junction.

Warning about well known bike shop removed at request of moderators.

el_presidente · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Tom Butcher

If Jules just moved ahead of the traffic then how were 2 vehicles able to follow - sounds more like they moved right out into the junction.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It's a right hand turn filter lane where the lights are set a way back from the actual turn. So you can roll through the lights and position yourself right at the turn, ready to roll as soon as the lights go green. There is definitely room for 2 vehicles.

BentMikey · May 2007

Jules has no leg to stand on, he/she is utterly wrong, deserves the punishment, and should quit bitching about it. That said, I think the police should have pulled the other two vehicles over as well.

My bikes
My skates

If I had a baby elephant, I'd teach it to skate.

Unknown · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by markinengland

I think that if you refuse to sign or give name and address to an officer when reasonably asked to do so you can be arrested, taken to the station and asked once again! The fact that you are not a motorist has nothing to do with it.Mark
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes, thanks Mark, I can see that giving one's address can be required, but requiring a signature? What about innocent till proven guilty? Doesn't seem right to me.

BentMikey · May 2007

If you accept an FPN, you're admitting guilt, aren't you?

My bikes
My skates

If I had a baby elephant, I'd teach it to skate.

cupofteacp · May 2007

So do people think if all cyclists stopped RLJing, motorist would stop breaking the law?

15 * 2 * 5
* 46 = Happiness

dondare · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cupoftea

So do people think if all cyclists stopped RLJing, motorist would stop breaking the law?

15 * 2 * 5
* 46 = Happiness
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No. I think that if cyclists stopped breaking the law then we wouldn't all be regarded as anti-social, selfish, arrogant trouble-makers by people whose opinions sometimes really matter.

Baby elephants? Pah!!

dangerousjules · May 2007

just to clarify last time i checked i was of the male gender, however i have a small complex that so many think i'm a girl on this thread!
in reflection on the various posts i would say its an even split with those that would happily see me fined, told off,banged up,shackled for a reasonable rlj, and there are those that can see past the obvious and can see that there will always be this grey area when it comes to rlj...i still feel that many would prefer to take the moral high ground but those who are realists will understand that city cycling can be a complex exersise and often the wrong decision taken can result in injury or worse. i did what i did and would do it again if the situation called for it, no regrets.
in conclusion in 10 years of commuting i have had many knocks,tumbles,arguements with other road users but only one œ30 fine, so i think you would agree that i'm not a flagrant law breaker or have the police just turned a blind eye all these years[?]

dangerous jules.
you just have to accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue!

dondare · May 2007

Traffic lights are not a grey area for cyclists any more than mobile phones are a grey area for motorists.
From your first post I get the impression that the offence was really a technical one, you'd stopped ahead of the stop line instead of behind it. This offence is commited by motorists and cyclists about a trillion times a day so it's very harsh that you got nabbed for it.
I suspect that if you'd not argued with the cops you'd not have been fined, but who knows?

Baby elephants? Pah!!

BentMikey · May 2007

I'm not abusing you for jumping the lights, I'm abusing you for bitching about it when you got caught. Although I don't RLJ myself, btw, and there's no grey area - you just broke the law.

Besides, cycling in the city is not dangerous, and the wrong decision doesn't "often end in injury or worse". Cycling is very safe, given the 33 fatalities per billion km.

My bikes
My skates

If I had a baby elephant, I'd teach it to skate.

dangerousjules · May 2007

bentmickey,
do i sense some hostility...time for your hand shandy perhaps to release your tension on this subject!

dangerous jules.
you just have to accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue!

BlackandBlue · May 2007

Methinks you sense too much. Methinks you oversensitive.

BentMikey · May 2007

Yup, a bit oversensitive I think. I got stopped once for RLJing, but I didn't get a ticket, probably because I was apologetic and accepting of my wrongdoing. And it's very wrong to suggest cycling is dangerous when it isn't.

My bikes
My skates

If I had a baby elephant, I'd teach it to skate.

cupofteacp · May 2007

Dangerous don't worry, 6 million other road users were prosecuted in 2005 so I doubt you're alone.

15 * 2 * 5
* 46 = Happiness

dangerousjules · May 2007

i don't think i said cycling was 'dangerous' i said it can be a complex exersise...and just because you got stopped once and did'nt challenge the circumstances and got away without a fine does'nt mean that your offence is not as bad as mine, thank god we all deal with things differently otherwise we would'nt be having such a good discussion![:D]

dangerous jules.
you just have to accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue!

dondare · May 2007

I am never either a pigeon or a statue.

Baby elephants? Pah!!

dondare · May 2007

Do you remember How when the police saw motorists overtaking Ed O Brain illegally they prosecuted him for inconsiderate cycling?
Cyclists are easy to stop, I guess.

Baby elephants? Pah!!

Unknown · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cupoftea

For those people who get greif over RLJing
Why don't you ask?
Do you speed? Oh and how often?
Have you ever gone through a red light?
Have you ever had a parking ticket?
Do you have any points on your licence?
Have you every had a few pints and got in your car?
So do you think the evenvironment has nothing to do with you?
How do you manage your weight? (oh you don't)

I'm afraid if a motorist can beat you in argument then, well try harder

It's not difficult, I went Karting with 11 other people and when they decided to have a go about my cycling it was'nt long before they all shut up.

15 * 2 * 5
* 46 = Happiness
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The fact that others may break laws does not in any way, shape or form condone other law-breaking, such as RLJ.

I accept that there are drivers who break laws and cyclists who break laws but one does not justify the other. Two wrongs don't make a right"

_____________________________________________________________________
Be nice to grumpy old men (or else)

dondare · May 2007

But three rights do make a left.

Baby elephants? Pah!!

FatBlokeFromFelixstowe · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dangerousjules

and just because you got stopped once and did'nt challenge the circumstances and got away without a fine does'nt mean that your offence is not as bad as mine, thank god we all deal with things differently otherwise we would'nt be having such a good discussion![:D]<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You are not wrong, however I would rather be œ 30 better off irrespective of what rule I had broken. You are never going to win arguing with the plod even if you think they are wrong. Look you did the crime and gave them a bit of verbal so just accept it.

My e bay bargain œ 31.05
http://tinyurl.com/366awv

cupofteacp · May 2007

Completely right Killie
Therefore the fact that he went through first means that he cannot be used as an excuse for others to follow, they should have stopped the cars as well.

Why did'nt they, WHY?
How many people are killed by cyclists? How many are killed by cars? When will people get over RLJing it's a non issue.
Speeding in a car is more dangerous
and importantly cycling off the pavement into the road is a bigger killer for cyclists.
Most people drive and therefore most poeple belive the car is a good thing, just look at how many police officers have been caught speeding as aposed to how many have be prosecuted.
Do we belive that the way cars are used in our cities is the way forward? If you ask the police, Gov, and the average Jo the answer is yes.
Anyway Rant over I'm going for a run round the park.

15 * 2 * 5
* 46 = Happiness

zimzum42 · May 2007

Shouldn't have stopped, just pretend you don't see them, make sure your headphones are visible, and make sure you can cycle fast......

[:D] www.addiscombe.org [8D] [8D] www.darhotwire.com [8D] [8D] www.muzikmedia.com [:D]
My Bikes My Commute

Wobblescp · May 2007

Jules,
Thanks for letting us know that the plod monitor that junction.....I'll be more careful myself in future.
I take that way in most days and can't ever remember a cyclist actually stopping where the law says they should. Purely 'cos you would put yourself in a highly hostile situation where there's a short time sequence for the cars to get off the line and cover the distance into N/land Avenue and if there's a bike fumbling off the line they've zero patience for him/her. Not a pleasant situation.

I think you've been hard done by and can see how your hackles would rise being pulled up instead of the van. Easy to lose your cool, and it would take a very level tempered person not to argue.....however ill-advised.

I think people should see that junction before they pass swift judgement on you.

dangerousjules · May 2007

thanks wobbles...mr wobbles...it does take somebody who knows the junction to speak intelligently on the circumstances of my rlj, œ30 is a small price to air my concerns to the authorities, why when dealing with the police should we automatically be appologetic,humbled and fearful for their judgement, don't misunderstand my intentions i'm not some kind or reckless nutter who relishes breaking the law but the foundation of being a british citizen is the freedom of speech that is bestowed upon us all. my opinion on my stop and search... i felt needed a small challenge to the officers that focused on the easy target.

dangerous jules.
you just have to accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue!

Wobblescp · May 2007

Also I think it bears stating that to go beyond the stop line at this junction doesn't in any way put you in the way of any other traffic stream at any point when the lights are at red(against you).
In fact it could be argued that it shields you from the fast moving traffic to your left.

BentMikey · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Wobbles

I think you've been hard done by<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

He broke the law, how can he be hard done by? What's more, he was the first one to do so by his own admission, and the easiest to pull over. Tough lucky, anything else is motorist-speak for "go catch some real criminals", and just as unacceptable.

Not that I don't have sympathy, of course I do, but some of the bitching and moaning about the fine on this topic is utterly ridiculous.

My bikes
My skates

If I had a baby elephant, I'd teach it to skate.

Wobblescp · May 2007

Sure.
I just think that the cops could have exercised a bit of discretion......maybe before the arguing bit.

Do you know that juction Mikey?

Unknown · May 2007

you broke the law and they done you for it. Stop whinging about it.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">why when dealing with the police should we automatically be appologetic,humbled and fearful for their judgement, don't misunderstand my intentions i'm not some kind or reckless nutter who relishes breaking the law but the foundation of being a british citizen is the freedom of speech that is bestowed upon us all. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

no, we should be polite and fair minded as to their reasons on why they pull us over . . . if your in disagreement with them once you've heard them, then take the discussion from there.

Look at their side of things when dealing with the general public. They have to meet complete random strangers on a day to day basis in varying situations, make a reasonably quick judgment call on the situation of and deal with it from there. First impressions count, so what do think goes through their mind when faced with:

" Yes officer ? " .... " Fair enough, i felt i was in a dangerous position ... "
or
" Why stop me and not all the others " ... " I'll be doing it again by the way "

If I was the officer in the first instance, i'd probably use my discretion ( which is allowed ). You've been polite, honest about it and i'd let you on your way. The time you think you've saved by RLJ'ing has now been lost and that would be enough of a punishment in my eyes.

In the second instance, the first impression would be i dont like your attitude ... obviously not listening so give them the ticket and maybe that will make them listen a bit more.

Oh, and if i were the officer ... i would have pulled you over on the basis mentioned in the first example. You've RLJ'ed thinking you can save time. I'll take that time back off you with a warning. Hopefully you'll think twice next time.

MTB eijit

why only me officer?

Comments

Categories