Zabel admits

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  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by skut</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by afx237vi</i>

    My copy of Hell on Wheels is now soiled.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    [?][?] I didn't really have you down as the naive type, afx.

    Anyway, you can always offer it up as a prize for PTP[:D]
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Nah, it's still a great film [:D]

    And anyway, I'm not really that surprised. Zabel is kinda disappointing, but if he says is it was only for one week, I'm inclined to believe him. D'Hont's verseion of events backs that up.

    Like others have said, it was over a decade ago. They should let it go. I don't understand why some of the ex Telekoms are still denying it though. What's the point? Just admit it and move on.
  • Mr Bumble
    Mr Bumble Posts: 572
    What ever your position on doping, bans, amnesty etc. is, I believe a couple of things really stand out with regards to Zabel's confession:

    1. The incredible nobility and humility with which Zabel did confess. One could really feel his deep remorse through those tears!

    2. Zabel's honour and 'chivalry'. Lets face it he was under no compulsion to confess. Ok. Aldag's coming out would have brought incredible scrutiny on Zabel, but he could have just denied it. The fact he travelled to in affect support his former team mate is touching and praiseworthy.

    3. By now you must think me overly sentimental and naive, but I really feel there is truth in the "only tried it once". I have a friend who rides on a Spanish conitental team that tried Epo once and just did not like the side affects either.

    So:

    I think that where exemplary conduct is displayed ie Zabel, Millar allowances should be made. I really feel the UCI should anounce an amnesty, riders can fess up then continue clean, or be slaughtered by new anti doping regulations. Like the Buddha mumbled:

    only thorgh compassion can we clean the mind(and cycling)
  • What about Indurain? Sounds like he must have been at it too and I've always marvelled at his "natural" resting heart rate, VO2 max and ability to recover. Or was he the Armstrong of his day and his natural ability was enough to beat his doped opponents?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Hey little thing let me light ya candle cos a momma I'm sure hard to hannana, yesaran
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Will it be treats with Pocket and Sweets? Is that where we should go?
  • eh
    eh Posts: 4,854
    I think Zabel stepping forward is a huge step and pretty much nails to the wall the fact that 99+% of the riders in the 90's used EPO at some point.

    And now would be a great time for everyone came forward and we just put the 90' down as the EPO era, in the same way the 50& 60's were amphetamines and 70's & 80's steriods. I just hope the 00's won't be remembered as the transfusion era.

    Wonder if this will have any knock-ons into other sports, e.g. old football pros.
  • I sleep better assuming that if all the big names are probably doping, then it's a pretty even playing field. It's destroying cycling's image though, so I'm up for everyone to confess, receive no bans and then move on dope free.
  • andrewgturnbull
    andrewgturnbull Posts: 3,861
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by afx237vi</i>

    My copy of Hell on Wheels is now soiled.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    I didn't realise it was that kind of film...
  • lucretiuscp
    lucretiuscp Posts: 135
    He did say he stopped because of the side effects though, not through a sense of fairness. How much pressure would there have been if the bosses, medical staff, and other riders all supported EPO use.

    On the plus side this all seems to backup the T-mobile house cleaning of drugs. They can now turn around to the other teams and say come on now it's your turn. I won't hold my breathe for fear of turning blue though.
  • <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by eh</i>

    I think Zabel stepping forward is a huge step and pretty much nails to the wall the fact that 99+% of the riders in the 90's used EPO at some point. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    so we can include Chris Boardman's career in this sweeping statement can we?
    And Obree's "l'incroyable monsieur obree" headline when he broke the hour record as well?
    Gilles Delion's Tour of Lombardy win?
  • <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by lucretius</i>
    On the plus side this all seems to backup the T-mobile house cleaning of drugs. They can now turn around to the other teams and say come on now it's your turn. I won't hold my breathe for fear of turning blue though.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    This only happened because of that fellows book. If he hadn't laid the allegations out Zabel would still be in Spain and Aldag would still be a hypocrite in charge of a team.

    IMO. Noble? No, no choice.
  • cswebbo
    cswebbo Posts: 220
    Sorry, i cannot agree with this 'level playing field' theory.
    Look at the Puerto 'evidence'. Some riders were paying upwards of œ25,000 per year just on blood transfusions. Add on to that anything else they fancied!!!

    Most of the pro's probably don't take home much more than this in a year!
    What chance do they have of winning?
  • Langenberg
    Langenberg Posts: 453
    There are photos and a video of Zabel's press conference here (video top right-hand corner).

    Clearly, this isn't easy for him and I must admit that the emotion he shows would suggest that his involvement goes a little beyond the 'tried it once, didn't like it' line.

    http://www.faz.net/s/RubCBF8402E577F4A6 ... ntent.html

    He also refers to not wanting to appear to be a liar to his son who is starting out in cycling which seems genuine.

    Must admit, I have always like Zabel and I think there is an element of him standing by Aldag which is kind of moving. While the timing etc could be interpreted as being calculated so that he can move into management etc, this doesn't appear to be the case.
    He could've taken the Jens Heppner line ('never seen anything and allegations are a pack of lies anyway') as there isn't really anything linking him to concrete evidence.


    =====================
    Pas de progrŠs sans peigne.
    =====================
    Pas de progrŠs sans peigne.
  • Not so keen on his hair-cut though

    <font size="1">'To be is to do' Jean-Paul Sartre

    'Do Be Do Be Do' Frank Sinatra</font id="size1">
  • eh
    eh Posts: 4,854
    Got any solid evidence Boardman didn't dope? Acutally he was one of the reasons I put 99+% and not 100% but to be honest only he knows whether he did or not, the rest of us are just guessing.

    Life isn't a level playing field I'm afraid fact. And also the majority of pros will cheat to win fact, so yes Zabel did drugs also plenty of others but then is a surprise, when you see what they have to do on a daily basis?
  • <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by eh</i>

    Got any solid evidence Boardman didn't dope? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Only circumstantial - the fact he couldn't win a Tour TT stage rather than just prologues in the mid-late 1990's. You would have thought someone capable of riding 52km+ in an hour at sea level would have been slightly competitive in a similar discipline at the Tour.
    I seem to recall a remark he made about all these so-called time triallists beating him who he hadn't seen all year (Virenque and Dufaux in particular put minutes into him in one TT stage).
  • Jokull
    Jokull Posts: 248
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Matchstick Man</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by eh</i>

    Got any solid evidence Boardman didn't dope? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Only circumstantial - the fact he couldn't win a Tour TT stage rather than just prologues in the mid-late 1990's. You would have thought someone capable of riding 52km+ in an hour at sea level would have been slightly competitive in a similar discipline at the Tour.
    I seem to recall a remark he made about all these so-called time triallists beating him who he hadn't seen all year (Virenque and Dufaux in particular put minutes into him in one TT stage).
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Wasn't there an interview with some French cyclist who roomed with Boardman and says he was the only cyclist he saw who never took anything?
  • <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by andrewgturnbull</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Steve Austin</i>

    Zabel and virenque both did it in 96. So did Riis?

    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Hi there.

    No then, why would it benefit T-Mobile to admit to doping in 1996 in particular?

    I wonder what effect this might have on the credibility of a rival team owner?

    Cheers, Andy

    http://www.stirlingtri.co.uk
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Hi Andrew, remember that thread a few months back when I called Riis' 1996 Hautacam mountain stage attack "a now infamous stage' and you commented in reply to me that it was innuendo-what I wrote. Let us see what Bjarne Riis says tomorrow. Riis was a great cyclist and deserves to keep his win, it will be good if he has agreed a way to keep CSC in the sport but help solve the sport's ethics and health problems

    ________Our behaviour is a function of our experience.
  • <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by cswebbo</i>

    Riis has managed to dodge this issue for 10+ years now. This is the worst case senario now. Virtually his whole team and back up staff have now confessed in the last 1-2 weeks.
    I thought last years Operation Puerto/Tour de Farce was bad enough, but this year is heading the same way.
    Looks like i might be taping over my 1990's collection of cycling videos.

    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    I don't feel there's a need to tape over your 1990s TDF vidoes as it seems everyone who was good or half decent was taking the EPO route-it appears so anyway-so e probably would have seen very simialr results clean, no? Anyway, I appreciate hw angry cycling fans must getting at this sport-it's bad

    ________Our behaviour is a function of our experience.
  • andrewgturnbull
    andrewgturnbull Posts: 3,861
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Dave_1</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by andrewgturnbull</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Steve Austin</i>

    Zabel and virenque both did it in 96. So did Riis?

    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Hi there.

    No then, why would it benefit T-Mobile to admit to doping in 1996 in particular?

    I wonder what effect this might have on the credibility of a rival team owner?

    Cheers, Andy

    http://www.stirlingtri.co.uk
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Hi Andrew, remember that thread a few months back when I called Riis' 1996 Hautacam mountain stage attack "a now infamous stage' and you commented in reply to me that it was innuendo-what I wrote. Let us see what Bjarne Riis says tomorrow. Riis was a great cyclist and deserves to keep his win, it will be good if he has agreed a way to keep CSC in the sport but help solve the sport's ethics and health problems

    ________Our behaviour is a function of our experience.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Hi there.

    Dave - yes I remember the thread.

    There will be a lot of interest in the press conference romorrow...

    If Bjarne comes out and says: "Yes I cheated my way to the Tour victory in 96 - we were all at it" then it will be the most shocking admition in the history of the sport.

    However I don't see that happening do you?

    Cheers, Andy


    http://www.stirlingtri.co.uk
  • fuzzy29
    fuzzy29 Posts: 320
    <font face="Tahoma"></font id="Tahoma">These revelations from team Telecom/ T-mobile goes some way to explaining why some riders didn't 'settle in' there.


    If I had a baby elephant, I'd ask Banksy to paint it....
    <hr noshade size="1">If I had a baby elephant, I\'d ask Banksy to paint it....
  • Don't jump the gun fuzzy, you don't know how long or when things happened yet.

    Mleh Mleh Mleh
  • Eurostar
    Eurostar Posts: 1,806
    There's a video clip of Zabel's confession on the Bild site. He seems pretty upset: http://www.bild.t-online.de/BTO/sport/2 ... -riis.html

    Bild also says that Ullrich has sacked his lawyer.
    <hr>
    <h6>What\'s the point of going out? We\'re just going to end up back here anyway</h6>
  • Eurostar
    Eurostar Posts: 1,806
    More fallout: the T-Mobile doctors have been sacked by Freiburg university, and Wiesenhof, sponsors of Germany's 3rd best team, are quitting the sport. T-Mobile and Gerolsteiner are reportedly "reassessing their future engagement".
    <hr>
    <h6>What\'s the point of going out? We\'re just going to end up back here anyway</h6>
  • wasp707
    wasp707 Posts: 116
    It's no good saying that this was 10 years ago and we've got to move on. Are we to say the same in 10 years time when there are revelations about the drugs of today being taken that are not detectable? Anyone who admits to having taken drugs whether a rider or involved in a team in some other capacity should serve a ban.
  • kavcp
    kavcp Posts: 101
    That's a good point Wasp. The UCI are conspicous by their absence so far. If only Basso could have had the balls to spill the beans on Puerto, now that would be real progress.
  • Having watched Hell on Wheels and seen Zabel and Aldag as room sharing throuhg the big races, I can't help but wonder about Zabel-he tried EPO for 1 week only but roomed with Aldag waking up at 5am every morning to check his haemocrit. 'Sorry Eric, have to wake up a1 hour early this mroning to check my blood for EPO'...what's the plan for leading me out today'...can we even divide Aldag from Zabel considering he and others were instrumental in Zabel's wins? Still, it is good they came forward, but I am not sure Zabel has told everything.

    ________Our behaviour is a function of our experience.
  • <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by andrewgturnbull</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Dave_1</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by andrewgturnbull</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Steve Austin</i>

    Zabel and virenque both did it in 96. So did Riis?

    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Hi there.

    No then, why would it benefit T-Mobile to admit to doping in 1996 in particular?

    I wonder what effect this might have on the credibility of a rival team owner?

    Cheers, Andy

    http://www.stirlingtri.co.uk
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Hi Andrew, remember that thread a few months back when I called Riis' 1996 Hautacam mountain stage attack "a now infamous stage' and you commented in reply to me that it was innuendo-what I wrote. Let us see what Bjarne Riis says tomorrow. Riis was a great cyclist and deserves to keep his win, it will be good if he has agreed a way to keep CSC in the sport but help solve the sport's ethics and health problems

    ________Our behaviour is a function of our experience.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Hi there.

    Dave - yes I remember the thread.

    There will be a lot of interest in the press conference romorrow...

    If Bjarne comes out and says: "Yes I cheated my way to the Tour victory in 96 - we were all at it" then it will be the most shocking admition in the history of the sport.

    However I don't see that happening do you?

    Cheers, Andy


    http://www.stirlingtri.co.uk
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    I reckon Riis will confess about 1995-1996 as he's got guarantees from CSCS they will support him and the team in the future.
    http://www.supercycling.co.za/default.a ... ernational

    ________Our behaviour is a function of our experience.
  • andrewgturnbull
    andrewgturnbull Posts: 3,861
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Dave_1</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by andrewgturnbull</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Dave_1</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by andrewgturnbull</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Steve Austin</i>

    Zabel and virenque both did it in 96. So did Riis?

    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Hi there.

    No then, why would it benefit T-Mobile to admit to doping in 1996 in particular?

    I wonder what effect this might have on the credibility of a rival team owner?

    Cheers, Andy

    http://www.stirlingtri.co.uk
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Hi Andrew, remember that thread a few months back when I called Riis' 1996 Hautacam mountain stage attack "a now infamous stage' and you commented in reply to me that it was innuendo-what I wrote. Let us see what Bjarne Riis says tomorrow. Riis was a great cyclist and deserves to keep his win, it will be good if he has agreed a way to keep CSC in the sport but help solve the sport's ethics and health problems

    ________Our behaviour is a function of our experience.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Hi there.

    Dave - yes I remember the thread.

    There will be a lot of interest in the press conference romorrow...

    If Bjarne comes out and says: "Yes I cheated my way to the Tour victory in 96 - we were all at it" then it will be the most shocking admition in the history of the sport.

    However I don't see that happening do you?

    Cheers, Andy


    http://www.stirlingtri.co.uk
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    I reckon Riis will confess about 1995-1996 as he's got guarantees from CSCS they will support him and the team in the future.
    http://www.supercycling.co.za/default.a ... ernational

    ________Our behaviour is a function of our experience.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Wow!

    You know I really wasn't expecting Riis to come out and say he took drugs on a daily basis and offer the jersey back.

    The big man has really gone up in my estimation - he didn't have to say as much as he did.

    So Dave - it comes to pass that your innuendo was founded in truth.

    Cheers, Andy

    http://www.stirlingtri.co.uk
  • dammit_peter
    dammit_peter Posts: 140
    Milram are standing by Zabel... at least until the end of the year:

    http://tinyurl.com/3cog56



    'Son of Tisander,' he cried, 'you have danced away your marriage.' 'Hippocleides doesn't care,' was the reply. Hence the common saying, 'Hippocleides doesn't care.'

    'Son of Tisander,' he cried, 'you have danced away your marriage.' 'Hippocleides doesn't care,' was the reply. Hence the common saying, 'Hippocleides doesn't care.'