Zabel admits

afx237vi · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by skut

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by afx237vi

My copy of Hell on Wheels is now soiled.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

[?][?] I didn't really have you down as the naive type, afx.

Anyway, you can always offer it up as a prize for PTP[:D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Nah, it's still a great film [:D]

And anyway, I'm not really that surprised. Zabel is kinda disappointing, but if he says is it was only for one week, I'm inclined to believe him. D'Hont's verseion of events backs that up.

Like others have said, it was over a decade ago. They should let it go. I don't understand why some of the ex Telekoms are still denying it though. What's the point? Just admit it and move on.

Mr Bumble · May 2007

What ever your position on doping, bans, amnesty etc. is, I believe a couple of things really stand out with regards to Zabel's confession:

1. The incredible nobility and humility with which Zabel did confess. One could really feel his deep remorse through those tears!

2. Zabel's honour and 'chivalry'. Lets face it he was under no compulsion to confess. Ok. Aldag's coming out would have brought incredible scrutiny on Zabel, but he could have just denied it. The fact he travelled to in affect support his former team mate is touching and praiseworthy.

3. By now you must think me overly sentimental and naive, but I really feel there is truth in the "only tried it once". I have a friend who rides on a Spanish conitental team that tried Epo once and just did not like the side affects either.

So:

I think that where exemplary conduct is displayed ie Zabel, Millar allowances should be made. I really feel the UCI should anounce an amnesty, riders can fess up then continue clean, or be slaughtered by new anti doping regulations. Like the Buddha mumbled:

only thorgh compassion can we clean the mind(and cycling)

Tetedelacourse · May 2007

What about Indurain? Sounds like he must have been at it too and I've always marvelled at his "natural" resting heart rate, VO2 max and ability to recover. Or was he the Armstrong of his day and his natural ability was enough to beat his doped opponents?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hey little thing let me light ya candle cos a momma I'm sure hard to hannana, yesaran

eh · May 2007

I think Zabel stepping forward is a huge step and pretty much nails to the wall the fact that 99+% of the riders in the 90's used EPO at some point.

And now would be a great time for everyone came forward and we just put the 90' down as the EPO era, in the same way the 50& 60's were amphetamines and 70's & 80's steriods. I just hope the 00's won't be remembered as the transfusion era.

Wonder if this will have any knock-ons into other sports, e.g. old football pros.

Unknown · May 2007

I sleep better assuming that if all the big names are probably doping, then it's a pretty even playing field. It's destroying cycling's image though, so I'm up for everyone to confess, receive no bans and then move on dope free.

andrewgturnbull · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by afx237vi

My copy of Hell on Wheels is now soiled.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I didn't realise it was that kind of film...

lucretiuscp · May 2007

He did say he stopped because of the side effects though, not through a sense of fairness. How much pressure would there have been if the bosses, medical staff, and other riders all supported EPO use.

On the plus side this all seems to backup the T-mobile house cleaning of drugs. They can now turn around to the other teams and say come on now it's your turn. I won't hold my breathe for fear of turning blue though.

Matchstick Man · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by eh

I think Zabel stepping forward is a huge step and pretty much nails to the wall the fact that 99+% of the riders in the 90's used EPO at some point. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

so we can include Chris Boardman's career in this sweeping statement can we?
And Obree's "l'incroyable monsieur obree" headline when he broke the hour record as well?
Gilles Delion's Tour of Lombardy win?

Unknown · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lucretius
On the plus side this all seems to backup the T-mobile house cleaning of drugs. They can now turn around to the other teams and say come on now it's your turn. I won't hold my breathe for fear of turning blue though.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This only happened because of that fellows book. If he hadn't laid the allegations out Zabel would still be in Spain and Aldag would still be a hypocrite in charge of a team.

IMO. Noble? No, no choice.

cswebbo · May 2007

Sorry, i cannot agree with this 'level playing field' theory.
Look at the Puerto 'evidence'. Some riders were paying upwards of œ25,000 per year just on blood transfusions. Add on to that anything else they fancied!!!

Most of the pro's probably don't take home much more than this in a year!
What chance do they have of winning?

Langenberg · May 2007

There are photos and a video of Zabel's press conference here (video top right-hand corner).

Clearly, this isn't easy for him and I must admit that the emotion he shows would suggest that his involvement goes a little beyond the 'tried it once, didn't like it' line.

http://www.faz.net/s/RubCBF8402E577F4A6 ... ntent.html

He also refers to not wanting to appear to be a liar to his son who is starting out in cycling which seems genuine.

Must admit, I have always like Zabel and I think there is an element of him standing by Aldag which is kind of moving. While the timing etc could be interpreted as being calculated so that he can move into management etc, this doesn't appear to be the case.
He could've taken the Jens Heppner line ('never seen anything and allegations are a pack of lies anyway') as there isn't really anything linking him to concrete evidence.

=====================
Pas de progrŠs sans peigne.

Unknown · May 2007

Not so keen on his hair-cut though

'To be is to do' Jean-Paul Sartre

'Do Be Do Be Do' Frank Sinatra

eh · May 2007

Got any solid evidence Boardman didn't dope? Acutally he was one of the reasons I put 99+% and not 100% but to be honest only he knows whether he did or not, the rest of us are just guessing.

Life isn't a level playing field I'm afraid fact. And also the majority of pros will cheat to win fact, so yes Zabel did drugs also plenty of others but then is a surprise, when you see what they have to do on a daily basis?

Matchstick Man · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by eh

Got any solid evidence Boardman didn't dope? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Only circumstantial - the fact he couldn't win a Tour TT stage rather than just prologues in the mid-late 1990's. You would have thought someone capable of riding 52km+ in an hour at sea level would have been slightly competitive in a similar discipline at the Tour.
I seem to recall a remark he made about all these so-called time triallists beating him who he hadn't seen all year (Virenque and Dufaux in particular put minutes into him in one TT stage).

Jokull · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Matchstick Man

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by eh

Got any solid evidence Boardman didn't dope? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Only circumstantial - the fact he couldn't win a Tour TT stage rather than just prologues in the mid-late 1990's. You would have thought someone capable of riding 52km+ in an hour at sea level would have been slightly competitive in a similar discipline at the Tour.
I seem to recall a remark he made about all these so-called time triallists beating him who he hadn't seen all year (Virenque and Dufaux in particular put minutes into him in one TT stage).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Wasn't there an interview with some French cyclist who roomed with Boardman and says he was the only cyclist he saw who never took anything?

Unknown · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by andrewgturnbull

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Austin

Zabel and virenque both did it in 96. So did Riis?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi there.

No then, why would it benefit T-Mobile to admit to doping in 1996 in particular?

I wonder what effect this might have on the credibility of a rival team owner?

Cheers, Andy

http://www.stirlingtri.co.uk
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi Andrew, remember that thread a few months back when I called Riis' 1996 Hautacam mountain stage attack "a now infamous stage' and you commented in reply to me that it was innuendo-what I wrote. Let us see what Bjarne Riis says tomorrow. Riis was a great cyclist and deserves to keep his win, it will be good if he has agreed a way to keep CSC in the sport but help solve the sport's ethics and health problems

________Our behaviour is a function of our experience.

Unknown · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cswebbo

Riis has managed to dodge this issue for 10+ years now. This is the worst case senario now. Virtually his whole team and back up staff have now confessed in the last 1-2 weeks.
I thought last years Operation Puerto/Tour de Farce was bad enough, but this year is heading the same way.
Looks like i might be taping over my 1990's collection of cycling videos.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't feel there's a need to tape over your 1990s TDF vidoes as it seems everyone who was good or half decent was taking the EPO route-it appears so anyway-so e probably would have seen very simialr results clean, no? Anyway, I appreciate hw angry cycling fans must getting at this sport-it's bad

________Our behaviour is a function of our experience.

andrewgturnbull · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave_1

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by andrewgturnbull

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Austin

Zabel and virenque both did it in 96. So did Riis?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi there.

No then, why would it benefit T-Mobile to admit to doping in 1996 in particular?

I wonder what effect this might have on the credibility of a rival team owner?

Cheers, Andy

http://www.stirlingtri.co.uk
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi Andrew, remember that thread a few months back when I called Riis' 1996 Hautacam mountain stage attack "a now infamous stage' and you commented in reply to me that it was innuendo-what I wrote. Let us see what Bjarne Riis says tomorrow. Riis was a great cyclist and deserves to keep his win, it will be good if he has agreed a way to keep CSC in the sport but help solve the sport's ethics and health problems

________Our behaviour is a function of our experience.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi there.

Dave - yes I remember the thread.

There will be a lot of interest in the press conference romorrow...

If Bjarne comes out and says: "Yes I cheated my way to the Tour victory in 96 - we were all at it" then it will be the most shocking admition in the history of the sport.

However I don't see that happening do you?

Cheers, Andy

http://www.stirlingtri.co.uk

fuzzy29 · May 2007

These revelations from team Telecom/ T-mobile goes some way to explaining why some riders didn't 'settle in' there.

If I had a baby elephant, I'd ask Banksy to paint it....

Unknown · May 2007

Don't jump the gun fuzzy, you don't know how long or when things happened yet.

Mleh Mleh Mleh

Eurostar · May 2007

There's a video clip of Zabel's confession on the Bild site. He seems pretty upset: http://www.bild.t-online.de/BTO/sport/2 ... -riis.html

Bild also says that Ullrich has sacked his lawyer.

Eurostar · May 2007

More fallout: the T-Mobile doctors have been sacked by Freiburg university, and Wiesenhof, sponsors of Germany's 3rd best team, are quitting the sport. T-Mobile and Gerolsteiner are reportedly "reassessing their future engagement".

wasp707 · May 2007

It's no good saying that this was 10 years ago and we've got to move on. Are we to say the same in 10 years time when there are revelations about the drugs of today being taken that are not detectable? Anyone who admits to having taken drugs whether a rider or involved in a team in some other capacity should serve a ban.

kavcp · May 2007

That's a good point Wasp. The UCI are conspicous by their absence so far. If only Basso could have had the balls to spill the beans on Puerto, now that would be real progress.

Unknown · May 2007

Having watched Hell on Wheels and seen Zabel and Aldag as room sharing throuhg the big races, I can't help but wonder about Zabel-he tried EPO for 1 week only but roomed with Aldag waking up at 5am every morning to check his haemocrit. 'Sorry Eric, have to wake up a1 hour early this mroning to check my blood for EPO'...what's the plan for leading me out today'...can we even divide Aldag from Zabel considering he and others were instrumental in Zabel's wins? Still, it is good they came forward, but I am not sure Zabel has told everything.

________Our behaviour is a function of our experience.

Unknown · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by andrewgturnbull

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave_1

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by andrewgturnbull

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Austin

Zabel and virenque both did it in 96. So did Riis?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi there.

No then, why would it benefit T-Mobile to admit to doping in 1996 in particular?

I wonder what effect this might have on the credibility of a rival team owner?

Cheers, Andy

http://www.stirlingtri.co.uk
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi Andrew, remember that thread a few months back when I called Riis' 1996 Hautacam mountain stage attack "a now infamous stage' and you commented in reply to me that it was innuendo-what I wrote. Let us see what Bjarne Riis says tomorrow. Riis was a great cyclist and deserves to keep his win, it will be good if he has agreed a way to keep CSC in the sport but help solve the sport's ethics and health problems

________Our behaviour is a function of our experience.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi there.

Dave - yes I remember the thread.

There will be a lot of interest in the press conference romorrow...

If Bjarne comes out and says: "Yes I cheated my way to the Tour victory in 96 - we were all at it" then it will be the most shocking admition in the history of the sport.

However I don't see that happening do you?

Cheers, Andy

http://www.stirlingtri.co.uk
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I reckon Riis will confess about 1995-1996 as he's got guarantees from CSCS they will support him and the team in the future.
http://www.supercycling.co.za/default.a ... ernational

________Our behaviour is a function of our experience.

andrewgturnbull · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave_1

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by andrewgturnbull

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave_1

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by andrewgturnbull

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Austin

Zabel and virenque both did it in 96. So did Riis?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi there.

No then, why would it benefit T-Mobile to admit to doping in 1996 in particular?

I wonder what effect this might have on the credibility of a rival team owner?

Cheers, Andy

http://www.stirlingtri.co.uk
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi Andrew, remember that thread a few months back when I called Riis' 1996 Hautacam mountain stage attack "a now infamous stage' and you commented in reply to me that it was innuendo-what I wrote. Let us see what Bjarne Riis says tomorrow. Riis was a great cyclist and deserves to keep his win, it will be good if he has agreed a way to keep CSC in the sport but help solve the sport's ethics and health problems

________Our behaviour is a function of our experience.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi there.

Dave - yes I remember the thread.

There will be a lot of interest in the press conference romorrow...

If Bjarne comes out and says: "Yes I cheated my way to the Tour victory in 96 - we were all at it" then it will be the most shocking admition in the history of the sport.

However I don't see that happening do you?

Cheers, Andy

http://www.stirlingtri.co.uk
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I reckon Riis will confess about 1995-1996 as he's got guarantees from CSCS they will support him and the team in the future.
http://www.supercycling.co.za/default.a ... ernational

________Our behaviour is a function of our experience.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Wow!

You know I really wasn't expecting Riis to come out and say he took drugs on a daily basis and offer the jersey back.

The big man has really gone up in my estimation - he didn't have to say as much as he did.

So Dave - it comes to pass that your innuendo was founded in truth.

Cheers, Andy

http://www.stirlingtri.co.uk

dammit_peter · May 2007

Milram are standing by Zabel... at least until the end of the year:

http://tinyurl.com/3cog56

'Son of Tisander,' he cried, 'you have danced away your marriage.' 'Hippocleides doesn't care,' was the reply. Hence the common saying, 'Hippocleides doesn't care.'

Zabel admits

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