Best Gym Routine to Complement Cycling?

gbyers · May 2007

Pounded out the miles on the TT this winter but when 1000 came round in late Feb the boredom got to me.

I joined the gym at the local leisure centre. Quite impressed with facilities and got good 2 part induction.

But. The staff weren't too clued up on cycling specific training so were a bit vague on actual programme. I've sort of drifted into sessions 2 or 3 times a week comprising as follows. (Exc warm up/warm down)

20 mins interval stuff on bike. 20 mins hard rowing. Weights session - 5 machines, 2 leg, 3 upper body (2x15 reps). 10 mins hard treadmill.

Now that summers here I'll be doing more road miles but I'll keep an odd sesion going.

What programmes have other people found work for them?

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Toks · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gbyers

Pounded out the miles on the TT this winter but when 1000 came round in late Feb the boredom got to me.

I joined the gym at the local leisure centre. Quite impressed with facilities and got good 2 part induction.

But. The staff weren't too clued up on cycling specific training so were a bit vague on actual programme. I've sort of drifted into sessions 2 or 3 times a week comprising as follows. (Exc warm up/warm down)

20 mins interval stuff on bike. 20 mins hard rowing. Weights session - 5 machines, 2 leg, 3 upper body (2x15 reps). 10 mins hard treadmill.

Now that summers here I'll be doing more road miles but I'll keep an odd sesion going.

What programmes have other people found work for them?

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<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">What do you mean by compliment?
1. Another exercise to boost general fitness?
2. Another exercise to help your endurance cycling?

The Merckx Diaries "Oh its because when I saw you a couple of years ago you were planning to ride the TDF" she replied, slightly dissapointed"

cougie · May 2007

If you want cycling specific improvements - find an indoor cycling or spinning class.

toontra · May 2007

Quad exercise machines. The ones where you hook your feet under a weighed bar and lift it, and the one where you press against a plate and push. Also do plenty of squats with free weights, either hand or dumbell (or both). Then do a hard session on the cycle trainer (upright position if they have them).

This will all give your knees protection and build endurance. I also do 3 x 10 reps of all the other equipment while I'm there just to keep the rest of the body in shape, but for me developing the quads is my route to healthier and stronger cycling.

there's no such thing as steep hills - just the wrong gear

shockedsoshocked · May 2007

If you're going to do squats i'd suggest trying them on a Smiths Machine at first (basically a bar bell on a pair of rails) to get the action right. Careful where you rest the bar across your shoulders aswell. Most places have foam padding for this, but some don't (like my gym [:(]), so it may hurt till you get used to it.

__________________________________
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Toks · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by toontra

but for me developing the quads is my route to healthier and stronger cycling.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Unless you're planning to be a track sprinter or you've got some professionally diagnosed weakness in your quads its not

The Merckx Diaries On my penultimate lap I took turns with the only cyclist I know that's been lapped in a race by a young Lance Armstrong.

domtyler · May 2007

Personally I would stick to working out with free weights on your upper body and then simply ride your bike more, it's summer for goodness sake.

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toontra · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Toks

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by toontra

but for me developing the quads is my route to healthier and stronger cycling.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Unless you're planning to be a track sprinter or you've got some professionally diagnosed weakness in your quads its not
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I can only say what's worked for me. Last year I had a sore knee and my quads would start to hurt after long (200 mile+) rides.

I saw a couple of physios and they both suggested quad exercises (along with various stretches) to strengthen the quads and therefore protect the knees. I tried this as part of my winter training this year and it seems to have worked - so far!

I agree with riding more, but if you're going to a gym anyway then I can't see any possible harm in what I suggested, and very probably some benefit.

BTW a couple of hours in a gym is preferable to 4 hours in the pi$$ing rain in near-zero temperatures cycling around treacherous and busy roads in mid-winter in my book!

there's no such thing as steep hills - just the wrong gear

Toks · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by toontra

I can only say what's worked for me. Last year I had a sore knee and my quads would start to hurt after long (200 mile+) rides.

I saw a couple of physios and they both suggested quad exercises (along with various stretches) to strengthen the quads and therefore protect the knees. I tried this as part of my winter training this year and it seems to have worked - so far!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Cool, I've got no problems with that! <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I agree with riding more, but if you're going to a gym anyway then I can't see any possible harm in what I suggested, and very probably some benefit.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">If you're a newbie or someone who doesn't dedicate much time to cycling yeah possibly. But for anyone who rides regularly its worth remembering that STRENGTH is not the key determinant when it comes to endurance cycling http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=strengthstern <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">BTW a couple of hours in a gym is preferable to 4 hours in the pi$$ing rain in near-zero temperatures cycling around treacherous and busy roads in mid-winter in my book!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Admittedly I live in London, but having ridden throughout the winter I don't remember cycling conditions ever being like you described. And who says you have to ride for four hours to get a training benefit anyway?

The Merckx Diaries On my penultimate lap I took turns with the only cyclist I know that's been lapped in a race by a young Lance Armstrong.

toontra · May 2007

If you read the original post it asked:

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gbyers
What programmes have other people found work for them?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm answering his question - OK? I never claimed to be giving a definitive answer to the gym v. ride debate. I'm not qualified to do that and I doubt you are either! Chill out FFS.

there's no such thing as steep hills - just the wrong gear

Bianchi Boy · May 2007

Spin classes are good. I try to fit in at least two a week. As I've mentioned in previous threads try to avoid impact exercise.

Celeste is best

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Toks · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by toontra

If you read the original post it asked:

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gbyers
What programmes have other people found work for them?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm answering his question - OK? I never claimed to be giving a definitive answer to the gym v. ride debate. I'm not qualified to do that and I doubt you are either! Chill out FFS.

there's no such thing as steep hills - just the wrong gear
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Dude just hang on to your rattle a bit longer and we'll try again. As you've probably noticed its a cycling 'training forum'. Unfortunately that means "debate" and everything you say if deemed incorrect/misinformed or over generalised can and will sometimes be challenged by others.

I'm definitley not an expert thats why I provided a link by someone who is. Implicit with in the OP's post was - what gym exercises can boost cycling performance? The fact that I sat-naved your post to explain the bigger picture is understandably a tad annoying. Have a coke and smile you'll get over it[:D]

The Merckx Diaries On my penultimate lap I took turns with the only cyclist I know that's been lapped in a race by a young Lance Armstrong.

Smeggers · May 2007

I'm no expert or even regular cyclist, but 3 times a week i do...

10 minute warm up (any CV Machine)
3 lots of weights
30 minutes on a reasonably difficuly resistance on upright bike.
3 lots of weights
10 minutes cool down

Last time I went on the bike, (2 weeks ago), I noticed a huge improvement.

Hickory Dickory Dock,
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The clock is being repaired

Matchstick Man · May 2007

until you're doing 12-14hrs of structured cycling training a week then going into the gym will not produce the same gains that could have been gained by being out on the bike.
the only thing that's worth doing, at any level of fitness, is core conditioning work which can be done at home on a swiss ball whilst wacthing TV

Matchstick Man · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gbyers

Pounded out the miles on the TT this winter but when 1000 came round in late Feb the boredom got to me.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

are you saying you did ALL the miles on the TURBO TRAINER? No wonder you're hacked off with cycling!
Are you not part of a club that could make things a bit more social? Why not put lights on your bike and get out at night?
Ever tried cyclo-cross?
All ideas to help you with getting through winter....

S1ckening Vendetta · May 2007

Posterior chain Exercises (Hamstrings, Glutes, Hips, Legs, Lower back & Ab work)

The most powerful muscles used in Cycling.

"Progress Hurts"

ut_o_cykla · May 2007

Not wanting to contribute to any arguments - just trying to answer the question :-)

Chiefly gym work during winter - spin/turbo & 'complex' weights exercises (Complex - using more than one muscle group at once eg no biceps curls but underhand cable chins)with a bit of jogging as weather allows.
As spring arrives I phase this out out in preference for outdoor cycling (and a little bit of jogging when time is short/weather too wet & windy for me). According to current wisdom this won't help my cycling much (but has done) probably because I keep fit over the winter and don't get bored. As I don't race, keeping fit and enjoying cycling are my main aims.

If you want more 'complex' exercises I can suggest some.

If you cut to gym once a week and concentrate on rowing/core exercises and perhaps 1 set of other exercises this will allow you to maintain some strength/tone in upper body and cycle LOTS more (and feel you're getting value for money from your gym membership).

Hope I've not trodden on any toes....

pousse moi s'il vous plait

gbyers · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ut_o_cykla

Not wanting to contribute to any arguments - just trying to answer the question :-)

Hope I've not trodden on any toes....

pousse moi s'il vous plait
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

And it was not my intention to start any arguments[;)]

To pick up on the various comments, and thanks for the views.

I did do the 1000 miles on the TT - 3 x 1 hr seesions a week from October while watching telly or DVD's. Don't think its that excessive really, just a bit repetitive, I've got Tacx flow so will look at upgrade to imagic for this winter.

Now that summer's here - yep get the miles in, fantastsic. Longest route is 70miles, building up for Caledonia in June and Legende in Sept (BTW anyone else waiting for full entry confirmation?)

Gym is for a few reasons.

What I meant by complement was how can gym add to cycling by improving muscle groups not trained on bike and raising general fitness so that cycling endurance improves(not speed as it's not that important I don't race).

Also I actually quite like gym sessions and I did talk my (late teens) daughter into joining so it's an incentive to her to go if I do. (You can only desert your family to go on 4 hr bike rides so many tinmes a week [:)])

I take a point made above re core fitness - this is prob what i should concentrate on.

My weights exercise are leg extensions, and reverse of that - leg extensions really hurt upper thighs just where long climbs hurt so assume they're working.

Rowing is good cardio and makes a change from spinning.

I just had the view that my partially improvised programme wasn't getting the best out of the time in gym and the appliance of science (or someone else's knowledge) would help.

Cheers

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S1ckening Vendetta · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gbyers

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">What I meant by complement was how can gym add to cycling by improving muscle groups not trained on bike and raising general fitness so that cycling endurance improves.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Because a stronger rider will always beat a weaker rider, all things being relatively equal of course. Someone who can dead over 3x there own bodyweight should absolutley skin the rider who doesn't lift at all. Everytime.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">My weights exercise are leg extensions, and reverse of that - leg extensions really hurt upper thighs just where long climbs hurt so assume they're working.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm not going to tell you what to do in the gym, but better times will come from performing multiple-joint exercises that involve the entire posterior chain, (Squats, Deadlifts, Good-Mornings, Lunges etc.

Leg extentions are specific to quads. You need to involve everything, Hamstrings, Glutes, Hips, Legs, Butt, Lower back, Abs etc). Performing Multiple-joint exercises does this.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

"Progress Hurts"

Toks · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by S1ckening Vendetta

Because a stronger rider will always beat a weaker rider, all things being relatively equal of course. Someone who can dead over 3x there own bodyweight should absolutley skin the rider who doesn't lift at all. Everytime.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Er no dude thats simply not true. What determines how well you perform in an endurance cycling event is you lactate threshold and VO2max. "Strength" official definition: the maximum force exerted by a muscle or group of muscles) is not the signinficant factor in cycling except for very short track events. If it was World Kilo Champ Chris Hoy who probably lifts 3 x per week would've won last years Etape. He didn't. He was beated by hundreds of club cyclists. Even when you're honking it out of the saddle on a 15% climb you're not using all the strength you have available. If you were the odds of most of us completing a hilly cyclosportiv would be pretty slim. Bradley Wiggins or Magnus Backstead who do think has more strength (92kg V 69kg). Yeah I know, its a no brainer! Here's a better question which athelete is the world champion at track cycling's blue ribbon endurance event? Check this out http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=strengthstern

The Merckx Diaries On my penultimate lap I took turns with the only cyclist I know that's been lapped in a race by a young Lance Armstrong.

SteveR_100Milers · May 2007

Like Toks said..good sense there again.

Back to OP - what are you trying to achieve? better leg strength or faster TT times..maybe a quicker RR jump?

Time! Time! It's always too long and there's never enough!

S1ckening Vendetta · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Toks

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by S1ckening Vendetta

Because a stronger rider will always beat a weaker rider, all things being relatively equal of course. Someone who can dead over 3x there own bodyweight should absolutley skin the rider who doesn't lift at all. Everytime.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Er no dude thats simply not true. What determines how well you perform in an endurance cycling event is you lactate threshold and VO2max. "Strength" official definition: the maximum force exerted by a muscle or group of muscles) is not the signinficant factor in cycling except for very short track events. If it was World Kilo Champ Chris Hoy who probably lifts 3 x per week would've won last years Etape. He didn't. He was beated by hundreds of club cyclists. Even when you're honking it out of the saddle on a 15% climb you're not using all the strength you have available. If you were the odds of most of us completing a hilly cyclosportiv would be pretty slim. Bradley Wiggins or Magnus Backstead who do think has more strength (92kg V 69kg). Yeah I know, its a no brainer! Here's a better question which athelete is the world champion at track cycling's blue ribbon endurance event? Check this out http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=strengthstern
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The more force you can apply to the pedals :Strength:, the faster you will go. An increase in strength has shown to free up lactate threshold and VO2max systems over longer rides/distances, not just short distances.

The guys you mention in your post are mostly "big" riders I believe, who stab themselves in the foot by gaining muscle mass (through weight training) instead of trying to become a complete rider, controlling caloric intake while lifting in the gym. Lance Armstrong, Jan Ulrich etc are said to have perfected this system.

Bradley Wiggins will win the prologue in London.[;)]

"Progress Hurts"

S1ckening Vendetta · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by SteveR_100Milers

Like Toks said..good sense there again.

Back to OP - what are you trying to achieve? better leg strength or faster TT times..maybe a quicker RR jump?

Time! Time! It's always too long and there's never enough!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't know, but better leg strength will certainly provide him with better TT times.

We'll use Bradley Wiggins as an example. Lifts & one of the big favourites for the opener in London TT prologue.

"Progress Hurts"

gbyers · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by SteveR_100Milers

Like Toks said..good sense there again.

Back to OP - what are you trying to achieve? better leg strength or faster TT times..maybe a quicker RR jump?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I was trying to achieve a running argument betweem any two random posters [}:)] Success!

Anyway, SteveR_100Milers your question is more helpful [;)]

I'm not going to confine my exercising to just cycling even though, like most on this forum, the bike is the "weapon of choice"

I actually like the gym, it's more conducive on dark winter nights, another family member has been convinced of its merits etc.

I got to thinking though, have i just drifted into a random routine or could a different set of exercises help/complement my cycling. Answering your question: by complement I mean improve my endurance/stamina/average speed over long distances. I guess I'm after selective muscle build (endurance) and better cardio (harder effort possible and longer ride ability.

But I'm relatively unknowledgeable when it comes to exercise regimes; hence the OP.

Graeme

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Toks · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by S1ckening Vendetta

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by SteveR_100Milers

Like Toks said..good sense there again.

Back to OP - what are you trying to achieve? better leg strength or faster TT times..maybe a quicker RR jump?

Time! Time! It's always too long and there's never enough!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't know, but better leg strength will certainly provide him with better TT times.

"Progress Hurts"
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Like you said you don't know. Here let me repeat it for you Strength "defined as the MAXIMUM amount of force a muscle or group of muscles can apply" is not what determines how well you perform in Endurance Cycling events. So he'll only get better TT times if he becomes fitter aerobically. Not simply by leg pressing an extra 10 kilos. If that was the case surely pro cyclists would look more like Rugby Players

I guarantee practically everyone on the forum can turn 53/12 on the flat. The 'stronger' (cycling jargon for fitter) one's amongst us can do if at higher rpms. Thats about better aerobic fitness not STRENGTH. http://www.cyclingforums.com/t126133.html

The Merckx Diaries On my penultimate lap I took turns with the only cyclist I know that's been lapped in a race by a young Lance Armstrong.

N0bodyOfTheGoat · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gbyers
What programmes have other people found work for them?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

If the gym where you workout has a good variety of cardio-vascular machines, I would personally avoid the exercise bikes altogether during sessions, as you have a turbo trainer at home and a nice bike to go out on the real roads.

When I had use of a local gym, I swore by the cross-country skiing machines, as I found them the easiest one to make time go quickly and relatively effortless while burning off the most calories per unit of time (compared to any other aerobic machine). I used to split the session (upto 30 mins) into five minute intervals, changing the rotation direction and the relative effort of my arms and legs. Due to the nature of the machine using a lot of muscle groups, I almost always began my gym workouts on these.

I would then follow up with a 2000 metre row (regular stroke rate with a 200m sprint halfway and at end) and a killer (for me) ten minute session on the 'arm-bike.'

After the aerobic workout, I then moved onto the weight resistance machines, the focus of which alternated each visit to the gym: legs or rest of body. Personally, I prefered to do 8 slow repetitions on each machine before moving onto the next station, as I was trying to improve my muscle strength (rather than doing anything like 15 reps which would focus muscles more on a stamina building strategy).

Depending on how I felt, I would then repeat all the above a second time before calling it a day.

toontra · June 2007

Wow, toks - I bow to your superior knowledge. I'll never again contribute with advice given to me by professional sports physiotherapists in case it conflicts with your self-opinioned beliefs and induces a spew of patronising posts. You win - happy?

there's no such thing as steep hills - just the wrong gear

shockedsoshocked · June 2007

Sorry to bump this thread (and hijack it a bit) but i've just started doing squats on a smiths machine after putting it off and using the curl machines instead, and I was just wondering, are my legs supposed to ache this much? [:O]

__________________________________
"The tyranny of distance, didn't stop the cavaliers, so why should it stop me?" - Split Enz

ut_o_cykla · June 2007

uhm.. yes! first time is probabaly painful like you've rarely experienced due to unusual use. Not good or helpful at the height of 'cycling out of doors' season!

How about waiting for rain & snow before starting off on a gym programme? Squats in Smith machine let you weild heavy weights but don't help with balance/core/fine muscle coordination and tend to force your body into an awkward position. I think Extension machines isolate muscles too much but can be good if you're just getting started.

If you 'must' gym in the summer use much lighter free weights, do 12-16 reps - less gain perhaps but less pain too. Get someone who knows what they are doing to teach you correct technique too otherwise you'll be back here with 'I've got this really niggling ache in my lower back':-)

I love weight training. Some say its no good for cyclists.(I don't agree unless you are an elite mountain goat!) Either way I do it 'off' season to provide variety and allow me as much time in the outdoors in the summer.

Hope the sweet agony has passed - take it easy!

pousse moi s'il vous plait

whatstherush · June 2007

I would never do squats on a Smith machine. Do a bit of googling and you will quickly see what a back wrecker they can be.

Learn how to do free weight squats safely and your body will thank you. There is no better exercise for leg strength although leg presses are a good alternative if your gym doesn't have the right safety equipment.

shockedsoshocked · June 2007

Thanks for the tips. I know proper free weights are better (I use dumb bells for nearly all my upper body work), but the only bar we have is an olympic bar (only a small gym). The hamstring/quad curl machines seem to have improved my cycling in a short space of time, hills that were a struggle to do seated are possible now.

My technique should be right, my dad has pretty good knowledge of weight lifting (his dad/my grandad was a former Mr Britain). The reason I chose to start doing squats was the massive amount of muscles you work, and it seems when done properly it's the best for leg/core strength.

I'll have a go at the free weights I guess, thanks again.

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"The tyranny of distance, didn't stop the cavaliers, so why should it stop me?" - Split Enz

Best Gym Routine to Complement Cycling?

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