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Protein

longers75longers75 Posts: 214
We as active people need protein to repair and build muscle but does it matter whether it comes from animal or vegetable?

I eat more veggies than meat and am given to believe that my beans and pulses are high in protein but is this a better source than chicken and steak?

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  • gaterz1981gaterz1981 Posts: 503
    nuts are jam packed with protein. Lots of nuts and things contain protein and i know someone who swears by his protein drink as his muscles dont ache on recovering on rest days.

    I work hard because millions on benefits depend on me
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  • domtylerdomtyler Posts: 2,648
    edited February 2011
    I eat loads of meat personally, you cannot really beat it as a protein source. I also have a Rego drink after a long ride which means that I don't get aching legs the next day. As a family we do have two or three veggie meals a week though and will substitute Tofu, Quorn, Soya mince or even just lentils, chick peas or other pulses for the meat. On those days you will generally see me eating a whole packet of sliced skinless chicken fillets and salad [for example] for lunch.

    Bottom line is that if you perform lots of intense exercise you need lots of protein in your diet, more important than carbs a lot of people say.

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  • SteveR_100MilersSteveR_100Milers Posts: 5,987
    quote:Originally posted by domtyler

    I eat loads of meat personally, you cannot really beat it as a protein source. I also have a Rego drink after a long ride which means that I don't get aching legs the next day. As a family we do have two or three veggie meals a week though and will substitute Tofu, Quorn, Soya mince or even just lentils, chick peas or other pulses for the meat. On those days you will generally see me eating a whole packet of sliced skinless chicken fillets and salad [for example] for lunch.

    Bottom line is that if you perform lots of intense exercise you need lots of protein in your diet, more important than carbs a lot of people say.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Porridge not Petrol


    I'd agree with that. There's a reason why body builders and power lifters eat eggs and steak. Red meat has almost double the amount of naturally occuring creatine source, and there is also at least one amino acid that occurs only in meat.


    Time! Time! It's always too long and there's never enough!
  • gbyersgbyers Posts: 164
    I've been a vegetarian for nearly 20 years and never thought about protein until in the last couple of years I've increased my distance cycling.

    Amount : typical adult sedentary male say minimum 70g a day. But athlete may need up to 140g so any active cyclist somewhere between the two but at least 100g.
    A meat eater will nearly always eat an excess well over 70g if they have meat at least once every day. A vegetarian needing to consume 140g would need to think about his diet to ensure adequate intake.

    Quality. It's the range of amino acids that's important. Again meat eaters don't have to think too hard about getting the full range. Vegetarians need to consume a range of pulses, dairy products, nuts and greens to ensure diet is fully sufficient.

    So it definitely doesn't matter where it comes from as lng as you eat enough and have a diverse diet. Meat eaters are just much less likley to eat too little or have any mino acid imbalance.

    Any other vegetarians got concerns about quantity? I can't speak for vegans but I'd be seriously worried about ability to get quantity if a serious athlete and no dairy.

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  • domtylerdomtyler Posts: 2,648
    edited February 2011
    Veggies/part time veggies can always just buy protein supplements, they can be either whey or soya based which would suit a vegan diet. This can be useful for meat eaters too as you need to eat 100g of steak or lean chicken to get 30g of protein.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Porridge not Petrol
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    Ferrari f2008
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    Porridge not Petrol
  • Must admit, I'm a veggie, but have stopped worrying about getting enough protein etc. I don't bother measuring any type of intake etc and luckily my muscles haven't wasted away, maybe I would be even better with them but for me if my veggie diet meant I had to spent lots of time worrying about protein intake etc I'd sooner stop racing.

    On the 8th day God made a bicycle, and he saw that it was good. (actually personally he thought it was his best invention yet)
  • andyBcpandyBcp Posts: 1,726
    quote:Originally posted by domtyler



    Bottom line is that if you perform lots of intense exercise you need lots of protein in your diet, more important than carbs a lot of people say.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Porridge not Petrol


    This would depend largely on whether the intense exercise was endurance or resistance based.


    http://www.teamvelosportif.co.uk
  • SteveR_100MilersSteveR_100Milers Posts: 5,987
    I interpreted intense as high effort, rather than long time. I am trying to lose weight and ride faster over short TT's and be able to climb steeper and faster. My diet is biased towards protein over carbs for that reason. I guess if you were riding 100+ miles a day and you were at racing body weight say <5% body fat then you would probably need to tip the balance more towards carbs.<br>

    Time! Time! It's always too long and there's never enough!
  • andyBcpandyBcp Posts: 1,726
    quote:Originally posted by SteveR_100Milers

    I interpreted intense as high effort, rather than long time. I am trying to lose weight and ride faster over short TT's and be able to climb steeper and faster. My diet is biased towards protein over carbs for that reason. I guess if you were riding 100+ miles a day and you were at racing body weight say <5% body fat then you would probably need to tip the balance more towards carbs.<br>
    Time! Time! It's always too long and there's never enough!


    Steve, do what you've gotta do, but it goes against everything I studied in sports nutrition. The shorter efforts you talk about - short TT's and climbing rely more than anything on glycogen replacement, and the most efficient way to do this is with carbohydrates - before, during, and after the effort.
    I have a lot of documentation about this, which is unfortunately on another computer that is inaccessible at the moment, so I will see what I can find in the mean time.

    http://www.teamvelosportif.co.uk
  • SteveR_100MilersSteveR_100Milers Posts: 5,987
    quote:Originally posted by andyB

    quote:Originally posted by SteveR_100Milers

    I interpreted intense as high effort, rather than long time. I am trying to lose weight and ride faster over short TT's and be able to climb steeper and faster. My diet is biased towards protein over carbs for that reason. I guess if you were riding 100+ miles a day and you were at racing body weight say <5% body fat then you would probably need to tip the balance more towards carbs.<br>
    Time! Time! It's always too long and there's never enough!


    Steve, do what you've gotta do, but it goes against everything I studied in sports nutrition. The shorter efforts you talk about - short TT's and climbing rely more than anything on glycogen replacement, and the most efficient way to do this is with carbohydrates - before, during, and after the effort.
    I have a lot of documentation about this, which is unfortunately on another computer that is inaccessible at the moment, so I will see what I can find in the mean time.

    http://www.teamvelosportif.co.uk



    I am admittedly no expert on the subject, and perhaps a little knwoledge is dangerous, but here is my theory based upon what I have read: for a 10 and 25 short high effort race, you will burn muscular glycogen, which can be processed from body fat or protein beforehand. By limiting the carb intake after exercise, from what I have read the body will replenish its glycogen store from muscle protein, body fat, and ingested carbs and protein. I am trying to encourage the refuelling process to utilise body fat, rather than a face full of pasta or similar. Anything longer than this, i.e. once you have depleted your glycogen store, then of course the body needs it to be refuelled presumbaly from food ingestion else you'll bonk. Carbs are the easiest form of "in fight" refuelling, so I use an energy drink during anything over and hour or so in duration.

    If you have some more accurate info I'd be grateful for it, since I really need to shed another 8-9 lbs in the next couple of months whilst building up muscle strength. I can't climb to save my life, which is all about having a poor power/weight ratio. The power part of taining is relatively straight forward: as much time at LT as possible, i.e. as many 10 or 25's as I can fit in!


    Time! Time! It's always too long and there's never enough!
  • domtylerdomtyler Posts: 2,648
    edited February 2011
    I think that the one and only lesson that never seems to change, no matter what the latest 'expert' comes out with is that eating a balanced diet with high quality fats, carbohydrates and proteins will never let you down.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Porridge not Petrol
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    NEW MEXICO DISPENSARIES
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    Porridge not Petrol
  • PeteinSQPeteinSQ Posts: 2,292
    Is it worth drinking a protein shake after especially hard rides such as a chaingang?
    image
  • SteveR

    If you are looking to lose weight and improve performance I can help you email me if you would like to know more.

    PeteinSQ

    Yes it is important to give your body what it needs to repair the damage done during exercise within 30 to 60 mins, whatever the intensity or duration, as your body is more receptive to good things but also more susceptible to bad things. This is why recovery drinks have been developed and have become so popular.

    Protein isn't the only thing that will be good for you. A protein drink fortified with calcium and a wide range of micronutrients (vitamins and minerals)or the now more fashionable name antioxidants, will help protect you against the effects of exercise induced free radicals, and so allow your body to recover more quickly and efficiently.
    P.Smart
  • PeteinSQPeteinSQ Posts: 2,292
    So would ReGO for example be a good thing to drink after rides? Or would I better off drinking something like MetRx?
    image
  • ut_o_cyklaut_o_cykla Posts: 58
    What ever you might find helps after a hard ride - don't forget Domtyler's advice - a good balanced diet to start with and then small tweaks to fine tune details. if you don't eat a lot of quality meat/fish etc a protein drink can be helpful after hard exercise especially if your body is short of carbs. Protein sources have a tendency to have fat associated with them - if yo're trying to limit fat intake a protein drink can be a good idea.

    A mixture of carbs & protien is better for recovery. You can get this from a something as low tech as a wholemeal sandwich and sliced cooked chicken etc. Leave out butter/majonaisse etc and have a glass of milk or fruit smoothie instaed maybe.

    Don't forget fruit is also carbs and will adress vitamins/minerals & antioxidants to a certain extent - depending on type of fruit.

    pousse moi s'il vous plait
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  • speedbumpspeedbump Posts: 416
    I'm veggie most of the time (except when eating out). After a hard ride I eat peanut butter sandwiches. I get plenty of fresh fruit and veg at other times. Will I get enough protein from peanut butter?
  • Originally posted by domtyler

    I think that the one and only lesson that never seems to change, no matter what the latest 'expert' comes out with is that eating a balanced diet with high quality fats, carbohydrates and proteins will never let you down.

    fully agree.i'm a veggie and i weight trained my self up tp 17 stone with no protein supplements or any other artificial foodstuffs(or drugs). splitting foods up into fats/protiens. carbs, is a bit sad. food is there to be enjoyed, it's not just a fuel.
    i read somewhere that the americans have the most expensive urine in the world because most of the supplements they take end up in the toilet. too much protien will do you no good.
    a good well thought out and balanced diet is best and a lot cheaper and more satisfying that a box of chemicals.
  • Fab FoodieFab Foodie Posts: 5,155
    quote:Originally posted by SteveR_100Milers

    quote:Originally posted by andyB

    quote:Originally posted by SteveR_100Milers

    I interpreted intense as high effort, rather than long time. I am trying to lose weight and ride faster over short TT's and be able to climb steeper and faster. My diet is biased towards protein over carbs for that reason. I guess if you were riding 100+ miles a day and you were at racing body weight say <5% body fat then you would probably need to tip the balance more towards carbs.<br>
    Time! Time! It's always too long and there's never enough!


    Steve, do what you've gotta do, but it goes against everything I studied in sports nutrition. The shorter efforts you talk about - short TT's and climbing rely more than anything on glycogen replacement, and the most efficient way to do this is with carbohydrates - before, during, and after the effort.
    I have a lot of documentation about this, which is unfortunately on another computer that is inaccessible at the moment, so I will see what I can find in the mean time.

    http://www.teamvelosportif.co.uk



    I am admittedly no expert on the subject, and perhaps a little knwoledge is dangerous, but here is my theory based upon what I have read: for a 10 and 25 short high effort race, you will burn muscular glycogen, which can be processed from body fat or protein beforehand. By limiting the carb intake after exercise, from what I have read the body will replenish its glycogen store from muscle protein, body fat, and ingested carbs and protein. I am trying to encourage the refuelling process to utilise body fat, rather than a face full of pasta or similar. Anything longer than this, i.e. once you have depleted your glycogen store, then of course the body needs it to be refuelled presumbaly from food ingestion else you'll bonk. Carbs are the easiest form of "in fight" refuelling, so I use an energy drink during anything over and hour or so in duration.

    If you have some more accurate info I'd be grateful for it, since I really need to shed another 8-9 lbs in the next couple of months whilst building up muscle strength. I can't climb to save my life, which is all about having a poor power/weight ratio. The power part of taining is relatively straight forward: as much time at LT as possible, i.e. as many 10 or 25's as I can fit in!


    Time! Time! It's always too long and there's never enough!



    IIRC from my Biochem years ago, there is no conversion route from fats to carbs, therefore fat cannot be converted to glucose or glycogen or any other carb form in the human body. This is often misunderstood in these kind of discussions.

    If glycogen and glucose depleted most of the body will run on fat as fuel, but the brain (which has a very high energy demand) cannot use fat as a direct fuel. The body can synthesise glucose from protein and can also generate "ketone bodies" from fat as a partial alternative to glucose. The brain is very dependent on glucose and metabolism will adjust to ensure the brain is suitably fuelled.
    A good explaination is here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketosis

    The pessimists of this world are rarely disappointed....
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    The pessimists of this world are rarely disappointed....
    Fab's TCR1
  • 16mm16mm Posts: 545
    Rego is really good, and is also vegan. Not sure if they've left something out to make it vegan, but I doubt it, can't be that much demand for it being vegan?

    later
    Mike
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