2024 UK politics - now with Labour in charge

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  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,355

    My limited experience of planning officers is that they defer to "experts" to arse cover. E.g. I had to pay for an arboreal expert to tell them a goat willow was not a native tree and not protected, while a large tree in my neighbours garden that did not overhang my property did not overhand my property. I also had to get a bat specialist out to confirm that bats would not be nesting in the attic that didn't exist, because it was my bedroom.

    I feel that some of these things are so self evident that someone with more than no experience could have had my application off their desk with much less work and time. And money.

  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,793
    edited December 9

    There's always a tension: if you allow everything to be discretionary then it just a question of when and where that discretion will be corrupted and abused. If you make everything process driven to remove that risk, nothing ever gets done.

    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,355

    I don't know, the planning officer could have looked at the tree and determined it was someone else's and nowhere near the work. Perhaps they had a neck injury and couldn't look up.

    They could also have looked at the plan and the bedroom windows they were standing in front of to determine there wasn't an attic.

  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,660
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,557

    I had a previous job where highways were demanding trees be removed for highway safety reasons (restricting visibility) and the landscape officer was insisting they be retained. Highway safety won on that occasion but it was probably 20 years ago, I think it would be a harder battle now. We also get a regular issue where a Council's design guidance states a requireemnt for street trees and a 'boulevard' layout but then highways want them removed because they create maintenance issues. No-one then wants to make the decision - you would think in having a published design guide that these arguments have been resolved internally already but apparently not.

  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,355

    What A levels did they pretend to have? That seems more important.

  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,650

    That was the impression I'd got from my friend... they just have to get on an deal with it, but they are all substatial brakes on the system.

  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,000

    Isn't it down to the developer to find the solution? E.g. low maintenance trees* set back sufficiently to not create a safety hazard, but providing the feel of a boulevard.

    *No idea if such things exist.

  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,557

    They usually have a specification of acceptable trees but that doesn't stop some highway officers saying no trees at all within the highway. I've also had things such as a highway officer saying there's no way you can reduce the carriageway width to provide a cycleway that meets the minimum standards so you'll have to get an agreement to a sub-standard cycleway only for them to leave at the end of the design process and his replacement refuse to sign-off "the developer" proposing a sub-standard cycleway, why didn't they take extra width from the carriageway? (luckily I had all the correspondence as I knew something like that would happen). Quite often they ignore their own policies and work on the basis of 'that's what we've always done'. Before the thread police come knocking I should make it clear that this sort of thing was happening before Labour were in charge and also the last time they were in charge but introducing guidance and regulations won't necessarily overcome the attitudes that create the logjams.

  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,649

    I think the issue around planning is it can all end up feeling rather arbitrary and like it contains the worst bits of being fully process driven with the worst bits of allowing discretionary decisions.

  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,604

    A proper boulevard would be the solutions - a wide road with wide pavements so the trees can be set back far enough. Not some narrow road, with a narrow pavement with the trees crammed in. But that would take more space and so less room for the 50m2 shoe box houses.....

  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,650

    I always think of Paris and its wide open boulevards being wasteful of space, then I saw this:


  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,557

    Wide roads in residential estates aren't great to be honest. One Council we deal with likes its boulevard effect roads for the main spine roads but the corridor includes proper width footways plus separate cycleways and a verge for planting so the "footway" either side is wider than the carriageway for vehicles which I approve of in principle.

  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,793

    They often don't do site visits unless absolutely necessary (not enough staff). Did you show the neighbour's tree on your drawing?

    But yes, you can add a small amount of not thinking ahead to the general mess.

    Fun story: on one project we had to submit a whole load of tree protection information, only for another part of the council to cut the trees in question down while the application was still being considered.

    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,793

    I mean, we do spend a lot of time and effort coming up with creative solutions but innovation does not fit well into a process driven system and it's very much a case of whackamole with new requirements added as different authorities see fit.

    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,650

    The Times trying to whip SE nimbies into a frenzy.


  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,438
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,355

    Not sure, but I think the green belt area is bigger than Surrey, but not the building plot. It's not like the Times to be so accidentally so deliberately and intentionally misleading.

  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,650
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,763
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,259

    Just for an element of balance to the above....


  • wallace_and_gromit
    wallace_and_gromit Posts: 3,680
    edited December 12

    I wonder how people would react if the national debt was only £1.5t, but those "left without a seat when the music stopped" after the GFC and the onset of the pandemic had been left to rot, rather than funded via lots of extra borrowing.

    I'm not a fan of the Tories, but the national debt pile hasn't just been magicked up for a bit of fun.

  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,763
    edited December 12

    Explaining finance stuff to lefties doesn't always work but it does make me laugh 😀

    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • I think the resident "lefties" here (and based on voting patterns, I am one of them, albeit not with any enthusiasm) are plenty sharp enough to understand the mutual incompatibility of: "Tories didn't spend enough" and "Tories increased the deficit too much".

    But it's all good sport, and every so often you come across someone who genuinely does believe in the Magic Money Tree.

  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 17,417
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • As a lefty I am struggling with how the tories managed to increase taxation while at the same time impose austerity, and still end up with a massive deficit. I am not knowledgeable on this, but either the money was very badly spent (and we know some of it certainly was) or else taxation has to be even higher in order to cover the costs of maintaining the infrastructure, and this may not be sustainable. It rather leaves me thinking that the country is on it's way to joining the third world unless Rachel Reeves can pull the rabbit out of the hat.

  • An obvious cause of Tory borrowing was the pandemic. There was circa £400b borrowed a lot of which was to pay people to stay off work.

    Another was the fallout from the financial crisis, where tax revenues were significantly reduced and benefits payments much increased. Expectations from voters re earnings and tax levels established in the run up to the GFC haven't adjusted to the fact that the UK (and indeed "Old Europe") is in a different financial world post-GFC.

    In general though, the UK taxes averages earners at very low levels vs European peers. The recent stuff with frozen thresholds is just playing "catch up" vs what should have happened post-GFC.

    When the media and politicians talk of "high" taxation, this is only relative to historical UK metrics rather than vs peers, and doesn't account for demographic changes (e.g. life expectancy, expected years of poor health, ratio of workers to dependents etc.) since the welfare state was established.

  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,456

    Seems sub-optimal



    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,456

    Seems sub-optimal


    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!