2024 UK politics - now with Labour in charge
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You've either got an expensive family or a cheap house.
And yeah, perhaps keep your social engineering to yourself. It's a slippery slope.
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Yebbut if the 'cost of providing it' is pushed artificially high by loading debt onto the businesses (I think that's the model in homecare costs), then should the government just cave in? We can see from US healthcare what the 'providers' will do if there's no pushback against a stranglehold on something essential.
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Well I didn't say I had solutions. But then neither does anyone standing on a particular soap box, as far as I can tell.
Just a lot of oohs and aaahs about haw bad it is, and push back on any solution. Makes you wonder why anyone would go into politics.
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Incidentally, if your motivation or justification for having kids is to support the tax base, you need to have a long hard look at yourself and consider fostering or adoption instead.
Having children is an act of pure biological selfishness - just one that most people want or are compelled to do.
However, when parenthood is flipped around and presented as some altruistic act (yep, it's hard work, but that's not the same thing) it can quickly lead to distorted thinking.
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When we briefly had two kids in nursery, my wife was effectively paying to go to work, the nursery fees were more than she was paid. Even just for one child it wouldn't have been worthwhile going back - luckily we were in a position to take the hit financially and she was able to work part time so that she could maintain some level of work and not end up unemployable after 4-5 years out of her industry.
Just seems like a real waste to have intelligent, well educated women abandoning the workforce and possibly never really making it back. Or aa noted above, not being able to have children to pay all of our pensions.
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The stigma of a career break is slightly a different issue I would say.
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If a career break is viewed negatively (for understandable reasons in some cases) and nursery fees are contributing to (mostly women) having to take a career break, they seem pretty closely related.
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Ricks wife doesn’t work or didn’t a few months ago.
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Well, I couldn't afford it now, but at the time it was fairly cheap because of what it was. I've checked what the average per child is and it's £12,400/year. I have two, so that's roughly double my mortgage payments. I'd suggest on average those with nicer houses also spend more on their children.
Not sure easing the difficulties of it raising children is any more social engineering than easing the difficulties of living a couple of decades beyond your working life.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Your mortgage is probably 25 years though.
Look I'd love to live to 95, but I think that's optimistic. So realistically my state pension will be under £200k in total, or about 3 years' tax.
Do you make similar analogies to life extending medical care and wotnot?
Nothings taboo, don't worry.
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After tax and childcare it was barely £100s a month (if it’s not London the pay drops off dramatically) so I figured why have the stress of running around with your hair on fire picking up and dropping off, paying some minimum wage carers almost all her income to barely look after your own child when you can have an actual parent of theirs look after them. Doubly so as her industry has a culture of finishing late - much later than nurseries.
And honestly, she absolutely loves it. She’s never been happier. So why would I deny her or my children that?
Gotta be worth something.
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What about windmills people can live in?
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Or at least little mice with clogs on.
Oh dear, RC, will be too young.
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I was thinking Windy Miller, but on reflection it isn't clear whether that was his actual abode. Perhaps that was just his daily grind.
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His life was never the same after he mistimed the exit from the windmill, smashed his skull, and thenceforth was full of rage, continually swearing at everyone. He lost his contract and turned to alcohol and drugs.
He ended up as editor of the Daily Mail.
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Is that not the standard term for a mortgage?
Point is it's all stuff we've collectively decided to pay for to make life less brutal. If you want to call that social engineering, crack on.
Societies of any kind need people to have children. You can make flippant comments about thinking of the tax base but people do have children at least in part for more utilitarian reasons. Absolutely, everyone should have complete autonomy when it comes to choosing whether to have children, but everything has consequences beyond one's immediate circumstances.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
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Yes, I'm aware of that.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
You don't need to insult nurseries ("barely look after") to make your point.
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lol I’ve heard enough stories to believe in general that’s fairly accurate.
If you want to believe it’s a good substitute for an actual parent of the child’s then go for it.
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I don't know your actual views these days, other than you are better than everyone else.
It's not possible to die of smugness, but it can cause facial injury. Be careful out there.
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Actual views?
"My life is great but there are things that suck, and there are plenty. Those things that suck are entirely the fault of boomers.".
An interpretation based entirely on BR posts.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Haha you all freely share your views on my life (which tbf I do share. I could just not), but when I share mine on others it’s a problem?
ok.
i get that who does the parenting is a taboo nowadays as most people don’t have many choices, but that’s just illustrative of the wider problem.
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Don't forget that the Netherlands is better.
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Maybe don’t take all stories you hear and face value?
There are plenty of very good nurseries. In many cases I suspect they do more with the children than parents do on a day to day basis, there are plenty of parents who will chuck the kids in a bouncy chair in front of the TV with some toys whilst they get on with chores etc.
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Anywhere that's not GB is better you mean.
And he rerally doesn't make his own life sound great - he hates his local neighbourhood, he hates that his house doesn't have 6 bedrooms, he hates his commute, he hates the train companies, he hates the old boomers who run his company, he hates the nursery and nursery workers who looked after his kid once, he hates the NHS and uses it more than most, etc. etc
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If you're judging people for something they don't have a choice over, I'd say that's pretty poor form.
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