2024 UK politics - now with Labour in charge
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Looking at my circumstances neither myself, wife, or Dad receive any benefits other than the state pension. If you are receiving other benefits then I dare say you need them.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
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Quite apart from the information in that graph, I'm slightly amused that female = pink, male = blue. I guess that old habits die hard.
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I think it means that there's a large number of people who could work more hours who don't want to (there's only so much corporate sh*te you can take) and don't need to (took corporate sh*te long enough to become financially independent). And such folk are nigh on impossible to incentivise back to work.
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Agree on point 3, there are too many economically inactive people for a number of reasons. However I don't see anything that Labour is doing to tackle this.
Where do I say that I don't want option 2?
There is also the option to try have the state spend less Again, unlikely given that Labour are in charge.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I didn't say you didn't want option 2. Option 2 seems impossible to do currently.
What about the last 14 years makes you think there is still spending left to cut?
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There needs to be a redistribution of spending. Less of welfare, for one thing. But the way to do that is to look for causes, rather than just cutting soecific types of welfare. The latter just pushes costs into other areas.
Don't know the solution, but I fear that this is the sort of issue that will make us realise that dull but competent probably is going to fall short, because it needs a bit of a greater vision to effect material change.
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Public sector pensions is one area. Cease all future accrual to the final salary and career average schemes and move them all over to money purchase auto enrolment schemes. Big savings to be made over the medium to longer term.
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Why do you think that? Granted it probably isn't feasible with Labour in power (unless you're a public sector worker or union member).
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
You've been banging on about cutting the state pension for god knows how long and I just helped you by showing that there are big savings to be had from scrapping public sector final salary schemes.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
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Labour have just done that.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
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No, they've just kept their salary up with the rate of inflation / cost of living. That's something pensioners don't have to worry about no matter how well off they are as an annual rise in line with inflation is the worst they'll get.
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Here's a breakdown of the Social Protection segment of the overall pie.
What does much less on welfare look like?Who is losing out?
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
The entire spending on public sector pensions is ~£8bn a year. I do think this could be brought more in line with the private sector, but what do you think you can sensibly reduce it to without just displacing costs elsewhere. £2bn saving?
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
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Defined Benefit
Public sector pension bill exceeds UK GDP for the first time
By Sara Benwell | July 21, 2023
Figures released by HM Treasury reveal that Britain’s public sector pension bill has exceeded the size of the total economy for the first time.
The cost of pensions for millions of public sector workers including civil servants, doctors and teachers rose by £116.7bn in the 2020-21 financial year.
This takes the total to £2.3 trillion, but at the time UK GDP was just £2.1 trillion.
The four biggest unfunded schemes are for the NHS, teachers, civil servants and the armed forces.
Simon Kew, head of market engagement at Broadstone, said: “Administering, operating and paying out to beneficiaries within these schemes remains a heavy burden for the economy to bear."
“The taxpayer is on the hook should there be any shortfall in these schemes – and currently foots about 75 per cent of the bill from the four largest pay-as-you-go schemes.”
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If final salary schemes were so affordable to employers, why are all schemes in the private sector closed to new entrants and almost all closed to future acrrual then RJSTerry?
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As Starmer says, they need to make tough decisions. Or are these too tough for Labour? As you can see from Dorset Boys post above, the amounts involved are significant.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
They are already massively underpaid, and we are already at the "pay peanuts, get monkeys" stage.
The swathe of vacancies across public services clearly shows they are already underpaid. And your solution is to pay them less ??
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On what basis are they massively underpaid in your view?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
The huge amount of unfilled vacancies. If you can't fill a job, you're either a) looking for a person with a skillset that doesn't exist. That's unlikely in public sector, so the other reason is b) you're not paying enough.
It is that simple.
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Got any stats to back that up? It may be the case in certain areas such s social care but I'm not sure that they have that much trouble recruiting train drivers for example.
The other issue that you seem to ignore is how affordable it is for the people who pay the public sector wages. Labour seem to be intent on increasing a current record tax burden, which suggests that it is getting to the limits of affordability.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
It isn't that simple, and they'd aren't massively underpaid in many or most cases, particularly if you factor in holiday entitlement and pensions. If they were underpaid you would see a big discrepancy with counterparts in the private or third sectors.
The reason a lot of public sector jobs go unfilled is because fundamentally they are shitty jobs. Shall we do a call out to nurses, social workers and teachers and find out whether they like the nursing, social work and teaching parts of their jobs, but detest all the stuff that gets in the way?
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It will take time but housing benefit and working tax credit should be the focus.
When there aren't enough houses to go round, housing benefit ultimately just pumps up everyone's rents. Working tax credits make sense to encourage people back to work and avoid benefit trap cliff edges but in a lot of cases just end up being a subsidy for employers who don't want to offer full time work at a reasonable wage.
There is no silver bullet for either but building houses and employment legislation could help.
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In my line of work there are roles with direct equivalents in the public sector. I've toyed with the idea of going back, having started my career in local government, mainly to build my pension pot in the final 15 years of my working life. However, looking at the salaries I'd have to take a 50% cut and the pension benefit just doesn't make that justifiable. I also see it from the other side in the weeks of waiting for a response when we send stuff to the Councils for approval because they are under-staffed (and many of those doing the work lack experience or are there for an easy life). There are obviously some public sector functions where there isn't a private sector equivalent but I don't think there are that many roles that aren't essential so being unable to attract people to undertake the roles creates problems.
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We do seem to pay people an awful lot to be parents.
I thought it was one of life's great joys?
And yes, the biggest part is state pensions. Good luck with that.
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But as you have often told everyone, you are in the top 1% of earners.
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Adding up the entire liability until all current employees and pensioners are dead feels like it's not a very useful way to look at things.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0
