Tour de France 2024 Rest Day 2 ***SPOILERS***
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Sure. We're in a period of quite rapid improvements of performance, and the last time that happened in cycling it was a massive monstrous conspiratorial culture of doping that was behind it, so I think you can forgive cycling fans some PTSD in regard to seeing that again.
I still think, as I mentioned to much dismissal on the forum, that a lot of the performance improvements are down to a significantly better understanding of food and how to fuel the efforts.
I'd suggest that Vingers doing his best numbers ever this year, in spite of his awful accident, suggests that he has more room to improve too.
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I think Vingegaard would have beaten Pogacar again if he hadn't crashed.
PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 20230 -
If my aunty had balls...
You could make the reverse argument about last year's Tour. Won't change anything.
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If Vingegaard says he's posting numbers better than he ever has, that seems unlikely.
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Why would he not have had an even greater improvement (like Pogacar) if he had been able to train without interruption?
The point I was trying to make wasn't about sour grapes. I like Pogacar more than Vingegaard as a rider. The point was rather that Pogacar's improvement doesn't put him so much above and beyond Vingegaard as the media is largely making it out to be. I still think Jonas is the best 3 week racer in the world. Pogacar is by far the best cyclist in the world.
PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 20230 -
Anyone remember Bernal saying the same thing last (?) year while being dispatched out the back by Pog and Vinge?
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They all say it, considering all the claimed watt savings on modern equipment must be well into the hundreds the big mystery is why they aren't going even faster.
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Uphill, gravity it still gravity. Lighter bikes make a relatively small difference vs lower tech eras. Modern kit mostly affects performance on the flat where aero benefits are King.
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Yep, good point. When climbing surely what's salient is VO2 max.
Also, at that level doesn't everyone eat, rest, train well, keep a good power to weight?
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LA was 75 kgs in his prime. Vingegaard was 60 kgs last year. Might go some way.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Strength though? That's what surprises me, you lose too much weight and you impact muscle mass. Vin 175cm/5ft9", 58kg. Isn't LA about 5ft10".
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LA did triathlons so had a larger upper body mass which is useless in cycling.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
So who would win if Pog structured his entire season around the Tour like Jonas does?
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When you say "structures his entire season around the Tour", do you mean like winning three or four stage races as preparation? I can think of a load of riders who'd be happy to have Tireno-Adriatico, Itzulia Basque, Dauphine and two times Gran Camino on their palmares for the last two years, plus podiums at Paris-Nice and the Vuelta - and that's without being able to finish Itzulia Basque this season or race Dauphine/Suisse pre-Tour.
I mean I know he doesn't ride one dayers, but c'mon
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The aero stuff does make a difference they're going so fast. According to the W/Kg boys (who Jonas said had stuff pretty accurate), Pog was saving 0.27 W/Kg sat behind Vingegaard. That's nearly 4% of the 7.33 Jonas was supposedly doing.
That middle section with just the two of them was ridden at an average of about 23 km/h 🤯 I know I can feel the wind at that speed.
Anyway, you'd also hope they'd found some improvement in e.g. drivetrain efficiency, rolling resistance etc since the late 90s. Otherwise what are super stiff carbon frames and ceramic bearings and chains that cost a kidney even for?
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Well yes as it happens, I do think all those appearances are selected to bring him to the Tour in the best possible condition.
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Fair enough, it just sounded like he wasn't really racing them the way it was phrased
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I think Jonas would win. Pog would beat him in every other non 3 week race.
PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 20230 -
I guess there will have been incremental improvements, but there'd need to be a lot to explain near 7w/kg for 40 mins.
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