Tour de France 2024 Rest Day 2 ***SPOILERS***
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How many did he win?
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.1 -
Time will tell but I’d say he has more chance of winning the Worlds in any other year than the triple crown. This could be a once ever opportunity.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I assume you are confusing Jose Luis Arrieta with Marino Lejarreta? The former never rode three GTs in a season, the latter did in 1987, 1989, 1990 and 1991. His best finish in those years was third in the 1991 Vuelta. He usually finished in the top ten in two of them, and then was well down in the third (although it wasn't necessarily the third one he rode in chronological order).
However, racing was different back then and GTs were ridden very differently, so I don't think it's a comparison that would bear up to much scrutiny.
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Froome rode the Tour and the Vuelta in 2017 (and won both), then rode the Giro and the Tour in 2018 (winning the first and coming third in the second) and has said that it was too much and he was essentially f**ked at the end of the 2018 Tour.
Three in a season, especially after you've had at least one peak for the spring classics, would be a huge workload for anyone to cope with, even a generational talent like Pogacar.
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Froome was 33 when he rode the 2018 Tour. Any decline after that before his big crash might just have been age-related. Pog's only 25.
If I was Pog, assuming he wins the Tour, I'd prioritise winning the Vuelta. Folk have done the Giro-Tour-World thing before, and the OG road race would be a "nice to have" but winning all three GTs in a season would be something else. And if he fell short, he'd have died with his boots on.
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Exactly, three GT's and you're getting into the realm of Elon Musk levels of greatness.
I mean within reason, say about a quarter of the way there, he ain't exactly started the first production (planet saving) EV or created a reusable rocket. Not to mention brain chip implants so Humanity has a chance against the impending AI revolution.
Anyway, yeah it would be a great achievement.
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Don't know about Elon Musk greatness, but in sporting terms, it would be up there with Michael Phelps, who even many non-swim fans have heard of.
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Pogacar apparently said at his press conference today that it was "99 per cent certain" that he won't be starting the Vuelta this year.
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One. The Vuelta in 1982.
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Good chance then. The amount of times I've heard "It is 99% that we will get this business contract".
It's always that 1% that gets you. 😂
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.1 -
I think in a non Olympic year he'd give the Vuelta a shot in such a case. The Olympics outside of just regular fatigue should be what makes the Vuelta impossible or unlikely to schedule in.
PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 20230 -
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The evolution of cycling media:
2003: Armstrong - 6.7w/kg "Lance you are so amazing, what inspirantion do you have for people with cancer"
2013: Froome - 6.1 w/kg "You are an obvious cheat. Prove to us you aren't a cheat. Cheat. Cheat. Kill the cheat"
2024: Pogacar - 6.7 w/kg "Look at the tufts from his helmet. So adorable. He attacks all the time. It's so romantic"
Cycling media are hypocrites just looking for someone to fund their eating holiday in July.
Disclosure: I think those power estimates are hugely flawed, especially over many years. I'm not making accusations against anyone but the media,
At least the cyclingnews forum trolls were consistent.
Twitter: @RichN952 -
He hasn't won the tour yet .... He has to make sure not to mess it up
"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm1 -
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I saw a paper the other day which suggested riding at 6m/s on a 7.5% gradient in another rider's wheel saved 6-7% power. Even if Jonas has a great day, does anyone really think that 2024 Pogacar can't hold 6-7% lower than 2024 Jonas for long enough to ensure there isn't a 3min reversal?
In another year without Jonas' crash, absolutely do-able. This year with Pocacar's level it would need some new influence to make it close even on the hot, long days this week.
2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #4s)
2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)0 -
For what it's worth, Vingegaard has said that the W/Kg estimations he was shown were actually very accurate.
This obviously doesn't affect any of the discourse around the figures.
As for the stuff about Pog's improvement - in any other sport in the world you'd laugh off the idea that the richest team on the planet could be winning events on the level of the Tour, twice, with a rough diamond who wasn't being trained to his full potential. But this is cycling, where that seems somehow completely believable.
Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Going materially faster than the basically unrestricted EPO times is quite something. Gotta admit that.
I am still blown away by the EPO powered athletic achievements just as a raw demonstration of power and speed, so I am naturally as blown away by these exploits.
(even if they don't look anywhere near as cool with helmets and cadence RPMs well over 110).
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I don't gotta admit nuttin.
I genuinely don't think using a generation of self-selecting cheats in an already niche and narrow selection pool sport to define the peak of performance is useful or healthy.
We know performances were capped by the 50% hematocrit rule - at least in the late 90s - and we also know there were riders that were pushing that level naturally and who couldn't benefit from EPO. These are the riders that can potentially come through again now. And they're coming through into a sport that has been radically professionalised in the last 15 years.
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The point is that when it was peak performance it was the peak of the tiny amount of people racing bikes at a time before global expansion, further narrowed by chucking out anyone that didn't want to dope or those that couldn't get any real benefit our of it. It's a tiny and highly skewed selection pool compared to today.
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He's apparently returned to Twitter
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Training structured intervals and consuming 120-150 g/hr carbs is probably a bigger benefit to the truly elite than EPO (since they would already be pushing against the upper hematocrit level). Every world record eventually falls. People just get better over time.
Holding up times from the EPO era as unbeatable and using those times getting beaten as some type of proof of doping is just silly.
PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 20232 -
I guess the benefits of aero bikes and clothing, nutrition and training are vastly overstated then.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
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No, but it goes a long way to explain why "peak performance" does not remain stationary.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0
