2024 Election thread
Comments
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If Labour come in and say that the fiscal rules are not working and need to be changed, that would be a great start. If they don't, nothing much gets better.
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Will that be the lesson they learn would be my question. Do they have any talent left to make them electable?
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The danger is that they will take it to mean they need to move further right and attract back those that leave them for Reform.
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This is my fear, a lurch further right. Along with no meaningful opposition.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I don't think political parties do learn. People step down. Memories are very short
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
The bigger concern is if intimately that becomes a meaningful opposition.
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I'm interested to see how many seats come back as Labour winning with a lower number of total votes than reform+conservative.
If it's a sizeable number, then I guess the calls for the parties to merge before the next GE will be quite loud.
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I don’t understand the concern. If they are annihilated it shows that people do not just vote because they have always voted for a party, regardless of their actual politics.
If they lurch right they’ll just pick up right votes.
They’re not making people more right wing.
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The concern is that while the electorate are not moving right the only realistic opposition is and they don't seem to be learning. Then we've seen what unfettered government does to the country.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Ok you might have to explain what the difference practically is between a 20 seat majority and 150 seats on how “fettered” the govt is
youre just describing the system we have
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Simple terms an 80 seat tory majority was bad for the country (and I said so at the time). A big labour majority will not be good either. A 20 seat majority can be tempered with a few rebels standing up to the whip. Yes, the party system we have and FPTP sucks.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I wonder how Starmer is going to furnish number ten? I can't see him going full Lulu.
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I'm very intrigued whether he will rip up the planning rule book and blitey will go on a homes to live in spree.
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how the tories have done since 2010 on a variety of things
if any of my employees were this bad, they'd have been terminated long ago
the crime reduction is a surprise, have to wonder how much is down to people not bothering to report any more, out and about in london my perception is that crime levels are worse than ever
see article for analysis and sources, not all are uk-wide,
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
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Does that take into consideration the rampant inflation?
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RAMPANT!
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Disagree. It is perfectly possible for there to be a collective normalisation of opinions. This is happening in the US. This is happening across Europe.
People just need permission to be bigots and bullies, that's all.
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Yeah we will disagree. I believe the press and the politicians do their best to reflect sentiment and the views of the voters they look to garner and the most electable politicians are those who capture that sentiment.
Same with the press.
I know it’s comforting to think it’s all the big baddies at the top making people bad, but that’s not really the direction of consent.
It is not a perfect transmission and the system creates interference in that flow and there are step changes (eg during change of govt) but in aggregate the politician reflect, not guide.
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You haven't grasped it yet have you.
The out grouping that the populists and in particular fight wing populists feed on is innate, and parented and peer pressured out of us.
If the messaging that surrounds people makes it acceptable, people will start to feel able to hold different opinions.
Personally, I already see a shift since Brexit. Don't you?
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I think the 80 seat majority was largely bad because it was Boris Johnson with it. Blair/Major/Cameron/May would all have been OK with large majorities.
May was so poor in part because she didn't have a large majority.
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No I think Brexit was a reflection of a very very well established europhobic culture in the UK and it was really institutional resistance, because of the type of people who run the show, that stopped it happening sooner.
That, combined with a global anti-globalist movement following the GFC, fueled in large part by the subsequent impoverishment, self inflicted or otherwise made it a popular option.
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May didn't have a large majority in her party. 😉
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.1 -
So was Cameron, but overwhelmingly they were just poor.
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Trump is a great example of someone who really captured the mood of major parts of America, so much so it allowed him to take over the whole party.
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Feels like an odd point of view given your background as a history grad. Are there not examples of people being led in various political directions?
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
This. The size of the majority is only a problem if there's poor leadership.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I’d suggest that’s just an outdated take on history tbh.
Part of the reason I did a lot of work on soviet Russia to 1953 and post 1942 Nazism is because power ultimately flows from consent from the people (otherwise people just wouldn’t do what those apparently in charge want you to) and so the intersection between the structures of power and getting people to do what the power says to do is actually really complex and interesting.
but bluntly, if no one wants to do what you say to do, you do not have power.
if all the soldiers think it’s mad to murder 6 million Jews, the Jews aren’t getting murdered, right? So something happened to make people to want to do that. People ultimately do things and people are conscious beings.
It’s really complex but this idea that big people change the world with their ideas misses the bigger impact, which is people are willing to listen (because they largely like hearing stuff they agree with) to them and their ideas resonate.
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I think that must be the Tories' "Crime is down by 54% [if you disregard fraud, which is rising rapidly, and so screw up the police and court system that cases take years to get to court]"
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article says "excludes fraud and computer misuse", also it's from ons data...
...which shows sharp increases in police recorded robbery and knife crimes in recent years
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0
