2024 Election thread

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Comments

  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,322

    If Labour had their courage of their conviction they would ban private education. However until that day people can still educate privately if they want: otherwise you get into those daft conversations about how much you are allowed to spend on your kids without giving them an 'unfair advantage' and then you're on the slippery slope to Ricktopia.

    And as you say, state schools become selective via house prices in catchment areas and guess who will be able to afford those houses when they don't have to shell out £40k or so a year educating 2 kids privately?

    Meanwhile, life continues to be unfair...

    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,135

    I'm not sure where you are making the leap from removing a tax break for a particular industry, to eradicating that industry from the UK.

    I don't know why you are so exercised about a policy that will not affect very many people.

  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,601

    Life's unfair...what a convincing and perfectly formed argument.

  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,322
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661

    It must be quite a weird cognitive dissonance to understand that private school conveys a material advantage for your children, which is inherently unfair, and then declare it is unfair that the government charges some tax on the spending.


    Remarkable.

  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,322

    No exercising on my side, I am simply informing about the impact of leftiebollox. You seem exercised enough to reply...

    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,135

    Yes but you are listening to the head of a private school, making unfounded predictions of cataclysm.

    That's like deciding that bike lanes are bad for the economy based on a vox pop with a guy running the new agent next to the proposed new bike lane.

  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,547

    For the head of the local private school. It used to cater for children from 2 to 18, but now it is year 3 upwards only, due to numbers at the lower end having fallen. Perhap the Ricks of this world who have a chip on their shoulder thinking al private schools are Etons, Harrows and Winchesters might learn something.:

    Dear Mr Starmer,

    I am the Head of xxxxxxx School in Dorset and I know we share a belief in the power of education to change lives. Someone once said that it takes a village to raise a child and it is that village that I want to talk to you about today. I want to draw your attention to the damage to communities that the addition of VAT on school fees will inflict; an important issue that I feel has not yet been fully understood or acknowledged.

    Clayesmore educates 530 pupils in a small rural community in the village of xxxxxxxxxxx. Some are military children and 162 receive some support with their learning. Like most independent schools in the UK, we do not educate the Jacob Rees Moggs or the Boris Johnsons of this world. 95 pupils receive bursaries and a further 159 receive scholarships. We are privileged to have 12 Ukrainian pupils in our midst; all fully funded within our very tight operating budget. None of these families could ordinarily afford private school fees. All our pupils are down to earth, respectful, humble young people who are being educated to recognise the value of their education and to understand that they have a duty in the future to give back. Having not been educated privately myself, believe me when I say that it has always been my mission to ensure that the pupils in our school are not arrogant, selfish or entitled. 

    The school is central to the village community which has a high proportion of retirees; many of whom love attending our music concerts, art exhibitions and seasonal celebrations and our pupils enjoy their daily interactions. The locals enjoy visiting our cafe and in return our staff and pupils make good use of the village shop. It’s a complex, mutually supportive and happy ecosystem of which, I think, you would approve.

    I grew up in a small town in the Midlands that has never recovered from the closure of the mines in the 1980s. I have witnessed first hand the demise of communities when their beating heart has been removed. Too often we think of schools merely as places full of teachers and children, perhaps forgetting about the network of key people who enable us to function and who in turn depend on us for their livelihoods. Domestic staff, gardeners, caterers, plumbers, maintenance and administrative staff, amongst many others, pull together to ensure that the students have a safe and supportive environment in which to learn. 

    At Clayesmore, wherever possible, we buy our meat, dairy and veg from local farmers and work with many local businesses and suppliers who provide maintenance support, equipment and services to the school: these are all local people we know personally, and who value our contracts as much as we value them. In 2016, we invested in a biomass boiler to meet our goals of sustainability and energy efficiency and to demonstrate to our youngsters that we are doing our bit to protect the world they are going to inherit: the wood chips come from a farm down the road. 

    Being a school that cherishes service, community and hard work, I am proud of the way in which we play a part in enabling these small businesses to thrive. I cannot imagine where those hundreds of people are going to find jobs should some of the UK’s independent schools have to merge or close. The local maintained primary school Head and the local secondary Head are both on my board of governors. We work closely together to the benefit of all our pupils and neither could absorb additional students in their schools should this tax be imposed on Clayesmore parents.

    In 2016, Brexit promised £350m per week to be diverted into the NHS. The reality has never matched the rhetoric. I fear that the VAT on private school fees policy, whilst similarly attractive to voters, is unlikely to bring in the hoped for £1.6bn for state schools but the consequences of the policy will be far-reaching and irreversible. 

    Sir Keir, I wholeheartedly agree with your aspiration to level up opportunities for every child and I know the difference a great education can make in transforming young lives. Indeed, that is what gets me out of bed each day. I would be delighted to work alongside you to discuss more ways in which schools like ours could support you in that goal. But in pursuing this admirable ambition, I ask you not to underestimate the wider impact on small, often rural towns, full of hardworking people that depend upon the employment and other opportunities created by independent schools. Many independent schools, like those mines once were, are the lifeblood of small communities. Policies which undermine their existence will have a devastating impact on the lives of many; and not just the children who attend them.

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited June 13

    Oh cry me a river. Come on. If he's doing such good work for the community he can do it in the state sector.

    What is the point of private school if it isn't to tilt the table in favour of the children who can attend?

    You may as well not bother trying to persuade me that the state school isn't anything other than awfully unfair.

    It is one thing making life unfair for people for the decisions they make - quite another to make it easier for those born lucky to extend an advantage over those not regardless of inherent ability or work ethic.

    I believe we should do all we can to engineer a world where the rewards are dependent on merit.

    Private schools are the antithesis of that. Why on earth would I care about a system that I think helps rot the major institutions of the nation?

  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,100

    That school charges £28,311 per year for senior day pupils (for those who pay).

  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,601

    The rivers are full of shit is similarly a true statement.

  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,601

    Comparing independent schools to mines is absolutely hilarious though.

  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,135

    Who sends 2 year olds to private school?

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited June 13

    If ya send your kid to their very expensive nursery the barriers to get into the school later are much lower.

    (happens a lot in oversubscribed schools around here - if you're worried your kid is not quite smart enough to leap the entrance requirements this is a way around it, and all other things being equal, the child that is already in their system gets priority)

  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,135

    I mean, as industries go, this is pretty fucked up.

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited June 13

    But didn't you know, they foster a sense of community

  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,100
    edited June 13

    Families with more than one kid will be paying that out of their post-tax income and still think they are not particularly well off.

  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,135

    Actually this is making me recall the imbalance of both private and grammar schools I had to overcome, and why I'd happily see private schools dwindle. I think the cost of more integration of the Eloi with the Morlocks would overall be a worthwhile investment.

  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,601

    So basically the take home on the UK average salary of 35k.

    But yes, the boys and girls won't end up with quite as warped a view of the world as those at Repton Harrow or Eton.

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited June 13

    After those fees they will feel pretty poor lol.

    I find the "woe is me we won't be able to afford it" crap from private schools so pathetic. Have they not seen what state schools look like? Presumably they have because that's why they're in demand, right?


    F*cking hell I raised £300 to paint some lines on the school playground and they practically fainted they'd not seen so much from one person.

    So much so I'm trying to arrange a whip around the obviously better paid parents to set a standing order to buy the kids some books - currently they're all paid for out of the PTA budget but they seem only able to raise £300 at a time per event. Like getting blood out of a stone.

    And this lot charging £30k per kid per year have the temerity to say they're hard up because they may need to pay a bit of tax? F*ck off.

  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,135

    I assume they don't have any problems with RAAC?

  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,601

    Meh the thing that really put me off the Repton nursery (beyond clearly not having enough money for it) was the lack of provision over the school holidays.

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661

    Starmer is bang on that all parents are aspirational, but only some can afford private school.

  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,648

    He compared the school to a mine 🤣

    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,510

    Perhaps I should write a very nicely worded letter to Starmer and ask for special pleading for my business.

    Perhaps the lack of nursery age students is down to people not having children rather than a tax that hasn't been introduced yet.

    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,100

    With two kids, it's going to be the first £100k of pre-tax earnings go on this.