The problem with the benefit system

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Comments

  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,665

    For every post about that theres one from someone else about youngsters expecting too much and needing to suck it up.

    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660

    When it comes to the specific issues around pensions and housing, lol then yes, they literally did.

  • secretsqirrel
    secretsqirrel Posts: 2,149

    Yes a lot of threads seem to end up in the same place.

  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,665

    Interesting

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68498937

    The Resolution Foundation said that, after taking account of rising prices, the average wage will not regain its 2008 level until 2026.


    The body also said that Wednesday's Budget will mean a net tax cut of £9bn is taking effect in an election year.


    However, it also said pensioners had been the big losers from tax changes during this parliament.

    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,653

    Presumably that's due to tax cuts being focussed on income but then non-income based taxation increasing substantially?

  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,653

    Is it unreasonable to consider their lifespan as a whole? My adult life has certainly been far more cushy than that of my parents, that's probably because of the sacrifices they made to give me a good start. Similarly my daughters had a much more comfortable childhood than I did. When you are comparing where you are now to where your parents were at the same age have you considered your respective younger years? It sounds like you had a very cosy upbringing, certainly in comparison to those that grew up in the 50s if not for your own parents.

  • To be fair though Rick, and this is not a criticism, you choose to live in a city (understandably linked to your career choice) that has disproportionately higher living costs. You could choose to live elsewhere and enjoy a much higher standard of living and own a far bigger house for a lot less money. I understand it is all a trade off, you work in a sector with higher incomes therefore need better geographical access, but that is still a personal choice. I don't see someone choosing to live in an expensive area being the result of previous generations wealth or an issue with state pensions, it is simply supply and demand. If one chooses to live in a high demand area you need to earn more and wills spend more, meaning less disposable income.

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    edited March 2024

    I'm not going to go into the old debate that prices reflect demand and a big part of demand is proximity to appropriate jobs.

    Anyway, I grew up here, so I can see the difference very starkly.

    Most of my friends who I grew up with haven't returned here because they can't afford it, even if they wanted to. So they are living in absolute crime ridden sh!tholes doing respectable jobs. It's miserable. Two of my friends are still stuck in flatshares because they can't stomach a 2hr commute otherwise, so they've given up on children.

    It's properly miserable.

  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,057

    Your final point is wrong. Unless you are judging travel purely by the thoroughness of security checks when flying.

  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,057

    This thread was started about universal credit, but as no one seems to know anything about that it moved on to pensions.

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    edited March 2024

    We'll have to disagree on that one. I flew a lot more than my children do. You rocked up a lot later, it was quieter, virtually no queuing, you could say bye to people at the gate etc etc. Night and day.

    Hell, I remember going with my mate and his mum to pick up his brother, because we could play hide and seek across the whole of Stansted. Quality.

  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,057

    You know all the night trains across Europe have declined because it is so easy to fly now?

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660

    Because it was cheaper.

    It's not so cheap now.

  • I don't doubt that, but it is still a personal choice. I am sure there is a good chance that many of them could move to different part of the country and enjoy a far greater standard of living for a lower salary. If part of the argument is that they shouldn't have to, they should have a right to be able to afford to live where they grew up, then that is a tad unrealistic. We should all have a basic right to a decent standard of living, but that doesn't stretch to a right to own an expensive house.

    I completely understand there are many people out there who do not have a choice, they live in poverty or severe financial hardship and cannot escape their situation, but I don't get the impression that is who we are discussing on this thread.

  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,057

    You said it became harder after 2001. Are you now saying it became harder after covid? The 2001 statement is just complete nonsense.

    For example, I was in Warsaw once looking to return to the UK. I went to pretty much every agency, on foot, to compare ticket prices. There were multiple companies running direct buses to London. I would guess that I paid something like £50.

    Now, I can just lie in bed and buy a plane ticket through a search engine for £78. There appears to no longer be any direct buses.

    If, like me, you are nostalgic for the overland days when you could sit on a bus for 24 hours, then fine, things are worse, but for the average person who prefers a 2 hour flight, things really are a lot better.

  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,619
    edited March 2024

    Don't forget that buying a cheaper return required a Saturday night away. Short returns during the week were at business prices, not leisure ones. The cost was signigficantly higher than it is now.

    not to mention the far, far wider choices of both departure airport and destination.

  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,665

    I think it's the frozen tax bands moving a decent % of pensioners from no tax to some tax

    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,619

    But Rick keeps telling us how rich pensioners are.....

  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,057

    Pensioners don't pay NI, so don't benefit from its reduction either.

  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,619

    Beat the spammer

  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,901

    If they're as rich as Rick claims, most of them will be higher rate taxpayers already.

    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    edited March 2024

    The agony of not benefiting from a break for a tax they already don’t pay.

  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,901

    So tell us your plan for punishing evil boomers and pensioners and forcing them to sell their houses.

    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 16,017
    edited March 2024

    Is this a parody of "The irony thread" where middle class professionals, led by someone who professes to be in the top 1% of earners, argue that oiks who have no chance of making meaningful payments to a private pension scheme should not get a MAXIMUM of just over £200 a week state pension?

  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,433

    I did try to make this point earlier, but it turns out that regardless of the veracity of the statement, it can only be made if you are not one of them.

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660

    Wehay, Bally returns.


    People on UC are expected to - what's the difference?

  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,858
    edited March 2024

    Assume you are aware of auto enrollment? The number of people with absolutely nothing beyond state pension should eventually be close to zero. Quite happy for people who need it to get support. If Child Benefit can be removed above a certain level of income, I'm sure it's not beyond the wit of man to do the same for State Pension. Ditto Winter Fuel payment (which Peter Stringfellow once attempted to refuse as he didn't need it and was told he couldn't).

    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    edited March 2024

    And, to be clear, I've made it plain the social security should be there for people who would be destitute otherwise.

    I just don't think that the bulk of the retired particularly need it. Richest cohort in Britain - as everyone points out, is to be expected - doesn't need a universal benefit.

  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,433

    I think it was more the stuff about arthritic bricks retraining as accountants that Ballsymate was referring to. And the stuff about well they should have thought about that sooner.

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