2024 Election thread
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It appears to me that Labour are so desperate to look like they won't revert to type and go on a tax and spend spree that they have ruled out most of the main ways of raising more tax. Which begs the question, where are they going to get the money to do all the things they say they will do? Most leftie solutions involve chucking more money at problems. Either they are lying about how much they will raise through tax or they are being pretty unrealistic about what they will be able to do.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Genuine question. What taxes did the last Labour government raise? I had thought they upped VAT from 15% to 17.5% but Google tells me that was the Tories in 1991 and the coalition then upped it again to 20% in 2011. Basic rate income tax had been dropping by successive Governments. There’s obviously Brown’s hit on top earners over £150k but I doubt many on salaries over that didn’t manage some kind of tax avoidance. Tax revenues fell as a percentage of GDP between 2000 and 2005 apparently. It doesn’t feel like a massive tax and spend from what I can see.
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You ARE going to vote Tory next time.
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Brown dropped in a new starting rate of tax didn't he, that he then unwound which was pretty distasterous for those affected.
Brown screwed the pension sector over with his £5bn pa raid early doors.
Brown screwed up stakeholder pensions - compare that farce with the success of auto-enrolment (possibly the tories biggest success of the last 10 years that completely gets ignored).
Brown's PFI was set up in a really bad way that we eill pay for for a while to come.
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Labour took a booming economy and spent it on stuff including schools.
In a hypothetical world where the Conservatives were in power, they would likely not have spent the fruits of a booming economy on schools, but instead they would have spent it on cutting taxes.
Therefore, irrespective of whether Labour increased or reduced taxes, it is likely that taxes would have been lower under the Conservatives particularly for the wealthy.
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Not much of that falls under ‘tax and spend’ which is the constant allegation thrown at a Labour government though.
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Actually they raised it to 50% as a trap/scored earth parting gift for the incoming tory government, who at least reduced it to 45% but should have put it straight back to 40%
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
Can throw in his disasterous tax credit system - worked for fixed earnings, but left loads with variable earnings with sizeable debts.
Brown was incompetent.
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Credit where credit's due.
Anyway, what do you expect now that Rick is financially successful and getting older & wiser?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Incompetence is a relative term.
Osourne for example reasoned that if you spend less then you might out strip the decline in that you had to spend. Which was catastrophically wrong, and we are still paying the price.
Less or more incompetent?
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Wasn’t an element of that simply pressure from lenders to be seen to be tightening belts?
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yep
another gift from darling was the tapering of personal allowance with resultant marginal rate of 60%
he created the ludicrous situation where overall % tax paid peaked as allowance reached zero and then reduced as earnings went above that point
if there was ever an anomaly that the tories should have fixed, this was it, but they never have
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
Can't disagree with that.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
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JRM has taken to counting Reform votes with Conservative votes as ‘proof’ that Labour aren’t doing well. He didn’t seem to appreciate that Reform are a bigger threat to the Tories and are taking votes from them.
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I can still see Reform stepping aside at a GE if they can get the Tory Party far enough to the right in their manifesto, but from these two by-elections, it looks like Libdems are voting tactically for Labour, along with a chunk from the Tories.
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JRM is also spinning that Labour need to do better in seats like this that they only win when in government, and that they didn't even get 50%.
Isn't one of these going to be subsumed into his own seat later this year?
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I'd surmise they've lost all the ragtag 'red wall' voters (racists to RUK and old-style Labour back to Labour) now they've realised they were conned, and increased the resolve of waverers to get rid of this bunch of incompetents.
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This election will be like the Beijing olympics was to Atlanta. One "Chris Patten" gold back in the 90s, whereas this time there will be dozens.
Unfortunately JRM and the like will just go on holiday earning a few mil advising people a few hours a year until some idiot makes them a life peer.
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Must admit I'm keeping fingers crossed for lots of Portillo moments. Rees Smug, Braverman, Priti Patel, Andrea Jenkyns and Johnny Mercer would do for starters.
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Reform seem to marker themselves as far more anti Tory than their previous iteration, the brexit party.
I also don't see what reform could be offered as a deal...is Rishi gonna promise to try really, really, really hard to send refugees to Rwanda?
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A referendum?
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
He can't count then.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
JRMs comments are a combination of an excuse to keep up morale and an element of truth. Reform voters probably are more likely to go Tory than Labour IF they go to either of the main parties. Of course that is a big if because people are starting to realise that the Tories don't keep their promises on immigration.
Labour must also be concerned about where those that didn't vote will go. Turnout was so low how reliable a guide are these byelections? Have Labour gained voters or have the Tories just lost them. Is being "not Tory" a good enough selling point for Labour - possibly right now it is but it's hardly going to create a solid base.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
He was talking specifically about Kingswood where the combined Tory / Reform vote beat Labour by a massive 0.4%.
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Their guy was going on about the Labour and Tory obsession with net zero. Obviously we don't need to worry about climate change and net zero is just wokeness but I was under the impression it was something the Tories have moved away from anyway.
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