Zwift training plan

I have signed up for the 8 week TT Tune up plan.

Bit of a gamble, as I won’t be able to do much else, other than maybe a recovery ride outdoors every week.

Start on monday, I have done a ramp, which gave a dismal result, but probably correct, since it is roughly the value I have managed to hold for an hour in real life on a couple of occasions.

Anyone followed a training plan on Zwift all the way? Worth it? Improvements?

left the forum March 2023
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Comments

  • N0bodyOfTheGoat
    N0bodyOfTheGoat Posts: 6,067
    edited January 13

    TT Tune-Up is a rare logical (workouts focus on specific targets rather than random changes), effective but brutal Zwift plan, I did at the start of '20.

    I found the first few weeks quite unchallenging at the time and iirc I threw in regular Zwift races and TTs.

    However, the plan ramps up big time from around week 5.

    Do not be tempted to increase your Zwift FTP setting during the plan!

    https://whatsonzwift.com/workouts/tt-tuneup

    ================
    2020 Voodoo Marasa
    2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
    2016 Voodoo Wazoo
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,611

    I know a good number of people who have done the Build Me Up plan and have definitely seen good results.

    I think the comment above about the first workouts seeming too easy is a common theme, but don't be fooled!

  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325

    yes, I have notices the workouts with TSS 90+ in week 5 and beyond.

    One thing I could do is to start from week 3… considering my first open race is at the end of February that would end the plan just right.

    I can do without two weeks of easy workouts, I have just done the McCarthy special yesterday… just managed to hang on, so the FTP is about right

    left the forum March 2023
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    edited January 14

    Had another look at the workouts and I see no reason not to start from week 3 and make it into a 6 week plan. There is nothing unique in weeks 1 and 2 and I suspect the easy workouts will just result in me doing extra stuff, which is probably not the best way to approach the plan.

    6 weeks also means it will end just as the racing season starts, so I can get a sense whether there is any immediate gain. At some point they were offering the plan as a 5 week, so I assume it was the same plan minus the first three weeks.


    Wish me luck

    left the forum March 2023
  • N0bodyOfTheGoat
    N0bodyOfTheGoat Posts: 6,067
    edited January 14

    Others may think differently, but would it not be worth scheduling a workout plan that ends a week before your first race, enabling you to have recovery adaption week?

    Otherwise, you run the risk of arriving at least the first race with wrecked legs from the workouts.

    ================
    2020 Voodoo Marasa
    2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
    2016 Voodoo Wazoo
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325

    the last week seems to have a lower load than the two preceding. I suppose I can tweak it to have the biggest workout on the first day and get progressively easier with the day before the race as rest.

    The big race, the really really important one is at the end of April…. National road bike TT champs.

    left the forum March 2023
  • slowmart
    slowmart Posts: 4,516

    best wishes Ugo, let us know what improvements you are aiming for and the outcome.

    “Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”

    Desmond Tutu
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325

    In the end I started from week 3. I am now 4 sessions in, with one left for this week (will probably skip the optional). None of the sessions were hard as such, but none was a walk in the park either… in the end I feel them in my legs. Doesn’t help that the pain cave is currently hovering just above zero degrees… sweating and being cold in different parts of the body is not the most conducing feeling.

    Onwards and upwards, tomorrow session is tempo, shouldn’t be terribly taxing…

    left the forum March 2023
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325

    into week 6… something must be happening because I found the 2 minutes intervals at 370-350-335-315-300 Watt in the TSS 91 session doable, so much so that I stayed on the saddle for the duration.

    Power intervals in week 5 were harder, I was on the ropes during the last one… standing and grinding a 50 rpm cadence. Ticked the box and rated it 9/10.

    Other workouts in zone 3 and 4 are demanding, but not strenuous.

    I am not re-checking my FTP as the plan seems hard enough… besides there is not much time built in to fit an FTP test, which is a hard workout in itself.

    14 sessions left

    left the forum March 2023
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325

    week 7, 23 sessions in, 7 to go. Tomorrow is the hardest power intervals session, 100TSS over 60 minutes… if I can finish that one, then I am on the straight home. So far, I managed to do all the sessions, some very hard, some less so. I feel stronger, 260W feels quite easy, so something must have moved upwards. Lost a couple of Kg as well, probably due to a change in diet.

    Looking ahead, what is a good way to maintain the gains made when it’s more entising to ride outside, the racing season is on etc.?

    Is the odd, maybe weekly, session of intervals indoors ( or an outdoors replica) a good idea?

    left the forum March 2023
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325

    predictably, I failed several reps in the BIG session… given the definition of TSS, having a figure of 100 over less than 60 minutes means that it should not be possible to complete it (100 is the equivalent of going at FTP for an hour, so doing the same work in under an hour shouldn’t be possible) I managed to scrape through and bag 92 points over 58 minutes, which is probably my limit or very close.

    25 sessions down ,only week 8 to go

    left the forum March 2023
  • I'm by no means an expert but during the outdoor season, a regular session of "VO2 Max" type intervals (e.g. 5 * 5 minutes at 110% of FTP) keeps things topped up nicely for me.

  • This is going back a while, but the last time I did some lab testing and got some coaching advice, the idea was to do intervals/threshold sessions in 2-4 week blocks to keep topped up. Intersperse these with longer blocks of endurance building.

    Over the summer months you could maybe look at 2 weeks of intervals, followed by 3-4 weeks of endurance, rest week, then back to intervals and see how you get on.

  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325

    is summer even that long? 😂 That seems a lot more than I was thinking. Realistically, I will race at least once per week between May and the end of October, so maybe I can fit one or at the very best two structured workouts in any given week, possibly not overly taxing. Maybe choosing my races better could help, mean I don’t have to go 100% every single week and sometimes just show up to tick the club box might be fine.

    left the forum March 2023
  • Ah, okay that give a bit more to go on. In that case I would be tempted to count a race as a session, and do maybe one more structured session (not overly hard though as you suggest) in a given week. Perhaps do 2 weeks of 2 "sessions" as above. This could be followed by 2 weeks of your normal riding/training (with perhaps even one of these blocks of 2 being a rest/taper week) and see how you get on.


    Basically you are then breaking each month (4 week block) into 2 structured weeks, one 'regular' week and one easy/unstructured week.


  • You may be made of sterner stuff than me (or be much younger) but a full on race effort each week for a few months may be as much "quality" as you can stand already, with additional high intensity sessions in between potentially counter-productive.

    Maximising the 60%-80% heart rate stuff between races may be the best use of your time.

    But if you are made of sterner stuff, then a "between race" interval session to give at least two days recovery between each intense session/race would be my suggestion. The danger is though that you feel OK on such a regime but aren't recovered for your races and are "out of ammo" earlier than would have been the case if you'd spent more time on dynamic recovery.

  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325

    most races will be 10 miles TTs, so just over 20 minutes… the 25 miles ones do stay in your legs, as an hour at threshold hurts. Later in the year it’s mainly hill climbs, you can do them back to back on consecutive days, at least the shorter ones… not going to do anything longer than 7-8 minutes this year. It sounds like a PRO Tour schedule, but it’s not.

    left the forum March 2023
  • You probably are tougher than me. I'm 4 weeks into a cycle of doing a 25-30 min Zwift race or TT every week, with the rest of the week basically just being Zone 2 / 3 rides because I'm too tired to do much more. Even with this seemingly modest work volume, I'm starting to flag and will be dropping the races in a couple of weeks.

    I'm rather scarred by an experience circa 25 years ago in my rowing days. I hit a rich vein of form and did repeated PB attempts, logging some times which at the time surprised me and now read like works of fiction. Problem was, I did one too many attempts and rowed myself into an evil virus that took 3 months to get over. Wasn't back to PB form for another 4 months after that.😯

    But good luck, whatever you do. With the benefit of hindsight, I don't regret "filling my boots" at the time, even despite the period of illness.

  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325

    the problem might be that you do too much zone 2… and therefore you are not used to riding in zone 4 and 5 as you have to do in a race. As a result, recovery times take forever.

    People swear by zone 2, but I really don’t see much in it, other wellbeing and NHS type fitness, and only if done outdoors. The idea of spending an hour in the “BLUE” on Zwift pedalling gently at 160W fills me with dread.

    Conversely, after the 100TSS session, I had planned a day off to recover, but surprisingly I felt fine so I did my sweet spot session and as it was sunny I also went for a gentle ride outdoors.

    left the forum March 2023
  • MidlandsGrimpeur2
    MidlandsGrimpeur2 Posts: 2,135
    edited February 13

    Zone 2 is very beneficial but you have to do lots of it. I have made the most significant fitness gains over the last 5 years and the majority of my riding is outdoors and zone 2, but I ride 13-15hrs a week. There is a reason pro's ride mostly in Zone 2 as it is their endurance base.

    I would agree though, for most people it is probably best doing a mix of hard efforts and recovery, as the majority of amateurs will be doing less than 8hrs a week. Unless you are riding hours of zone 2 each week, it is probably not the best bang for your buck.

  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325

    zone 2 outdoors in an average, in that ride you will probably do a mix which averages as zone 2. Zone 2 indoors typically is just that, that’s why I think it has no value for training

    left the forum March 2023
  • It's difficult to get across the nuances of particular approaches to training, but my philosophy has always been to do as much as I can each week, but never so much that it compromises the next week, other than in a really important race, where you have to do what's necessary and accept that afterwards you need to back off for a couple of weeks and then start building up again.

    So when I was focusing on the Marmotte and training 12-15 hours a week, I spent most of my time riding very steadily. Probably zone 2 (didn't have a HRM so don't know for sure) with the odd foray to higher zones out of necessity on particularly steep hills. (I can't climb a 10% gradient for more than a couple of hundred metres in zone 2 these days!) In "old school" terminology, this is simply "all day pace".

    Likewise when training for a Half Ironman, with time above zone 2 only really in the final three weeks when sharpening up with track intervals and also when swimming where a tactical burst was needed to optimise position (or when having a bad day running when I'd need to go to higher heart rates to finish my run in time to pick up the kids from swimming!)

    Conversely, when training for a sprint triathlon, best results came from fewer hours but much more time in higher zones e.g. regular 60-90 minute turbo sessions building to spend the majority of time riding "at threshold" in old school terminology, zone 4 (I think) this equates to in modern lingo.

    At the moment, I go flat out on Weds in a race/TT and do an hour of active recovery (zone 1) on Thursday as that's as much as I can manage. Friday is swim day at whatever zone that is (30 mins so probably zone 3 for the second half). Saturday is 2 hours on the turbo averaging on the border between zones 2 and 3 (so zone 2 for the first hour; zone 3 for the second hour due to "heart rate drift") and then Sunday is a steady run, again a mix of zones 2 and 3. Monday is my day off, and Tuesday is another steady run.

    If I wasn't racing on Wednesdays, I'd likely be doing the same number of hours at the moment, but more zone 3/4, and very little zone 2 (other than the part of a session here the heart rate is building and you just happen to be in a lower zone than you're targeting).

    So zone 2 can be either essential or a waste of time!

  • Re "zone 2 is very beneficial, but you have to do lots of it" I agree, and would comment that many online training recommendations don't make it clear that the religious fervour relating to zone 2 assumes you are doing a lot of hours.

    Even Weekend Warriors need to build their base, but this will best be done by riding in zones 3 ("Tempo") and 4 ("Threshold") assuming zone 5 is "VO2 Max" and zone 6 is "Anaerobic". Though obviously, it's not as effective ultimately as training for 20+ hours a week at mainly zone 2, which is what the elite endurance athletes do.

  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325

    big doses of zone 2 with small doses of the rest is beneficial if your aim is to ride the FWC in 7 hours, as ultimately, when you average everything, that’s where you would be most of the time.

    I do very little distance these days, so I focus on high power for under an hour, or stupidly high power for microscopic durations.

    I guess the advice on zone 2 is based on riders doing lots of club rides, which in duration (3-4 hours) are not at all dissimilar to professional races (4-5 hours typically).

    left the forum March 2023
  • Ugo - Lots of zone 2 plus a few bursts got me round the FWC, albeit in just over 8 hours rather than under 7! Though joking aside, assuming my powermeter was accurate, which it should have been given how much the bike cost, I averaged 65% of FTP for the whole day. (Probably my best ever day on two wheels.)

    My preference these days is for less distance, more intensity - and more time on the sofa at the weekend!

  • MidlandsGrimpeur2
    MidlandsGrimpeur2 Posts: 2,135
    edited February 14

    Would certainly agree with a lot of the above from both of you.

    You are right Ugo, most people's outdoors Zone 2 is an average, mine is done at a set power and kept within +-5% so that it is proper zone 2. I would class my mixed rides that end up averaging zone 2 as unstructured rides.

    Yes, W&G, there is definitely a tendency within cycling to encourage Zone 2 but fail to acknowledge the volume required.

    I have mentioned this before, but for those who are really keen to maximise their fitness, the only real way to do so is via proper lab testing to see your physiological profile.

    As a personal example, short high intensity stuff does little for me. I am much stronger anaerobically than aerobically. My vo2 max and MAP are good on low volume and intensity but my aerobic endurance is poor unless I do lots of volume at zone 2 mixed in with tempo. Most will be the other way around i.e. better aerobically than anaerobic without training it. Unless you have the data it is always guesswork.

  • MG2 - I sound a bit like you. I never have to work too much on priming the "top end" for sprint action, but Lordy do I have to work hard on base endurance! Mrs W&G is the complete opposite of me, and though we perform in triathlons at very similar absolute levels (she's much better relatively) we train in very different ways.

  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325

    Sounds like the two of you are perfect candidates for hill climbing… get on board… 😁

    left the forum March 2023
  • Tee hee. I have served my time! Though tbh, I still do a lot of hilly rides in the decent weather in the summer. Ride to Ilkley for a cake at Betty's and then ride home!

  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325

    back on topic, not looking forward to tomorrow’s session…

    https://whatsonzwift.com/workouts/tt-tuneup/week-8-neuromuscular-plus-ac-3

    left the forum March 2023