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Replacing Campagnolo groupset with Shimano

bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,913
edited October 2019 in Workshop
Just after a bit of reassurance and advice please, the ageing veloce groupset is to come off this weekend to be replaced with 105. I'm pretty happy with doing levers/derailliers cables etc, but have never tackled crank removal BB replacement etc.
Merlin sent me all of the parts includingd a BBR60 Bottom Bracket. I've looked at vids, but can't find one that looks exactly the same as my veloce crank/BB to get my head round removal. Is it a relatively straightforward process? are there any special tools that I will need? Any pitfalls I should look out for?
thanks in advance
All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
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Posts

  • i.bhamrai.bhamra Posts: 90
    You are probably going to need a puller to get the Campy crankset out (I'm assuming it's a power-torque model) and a 14mm hex key to undo the bolt first. Tool isn't cheap, might be possible to modify a cheap generic puller but definitely easier to get LBS to pull the crank for you.
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,913
    i.bhamra wrote:
    You are probably going to need a puller to get the Campy crankset out (I'm assuming it's a power-torque model) and a 14mm hex key to undo the bolt first. Tool isn't cheap, might be possible to modify a cheap generic puller but definitely easier to get LBS to pull the crank for you.
    Hi thanks, it's ultra torque campy, is there anyway it can be done without a puller, I'm a bit loathed to ask LBS since they're not getting the work or the sale of the 105 kit :(
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,571
    bianchimoon wrote:
    i.bhamra wrote:
    You are probably going to need a puller to get the Campy crankset out (I'm assuming it's a power-torque model) and a 14mm hex key to undo the bolt first. Tool isn't cheap, might be possible to modify a cheap generic puller but definitely easier to get LBS to pull the crank for you.
    Hi thanks, it's ultra torque campy, is there anyway it can be done without a puller, I'm a bit loathed to ask LBS since they're not getting the work or the sale of the 105 kit :(

    Just ask the lbs and pay the 15 mins of their time - they don’t need to know what you are doing and you’re paying them for their labor.
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • i.bhamrai.bhamra Posts: 90
    bianchimoon wrote:
    i.bhamra wrote:
    You are probably going to need a puller to get the Campy crankset out (I'm assuming it's a power-torque model) and a 14mm hex key to undo the bolt first. Tool isn't cheap, might be possible to modify a cheap generic puller but definitely easier to get LBS to pull the crank for you.
    Hi thanks, it's ultra torque campy, is there anyway it can be done without a puller, I'm a bit loathed to ask LBS since they're not getting the work or the sale of the 105 kit :(

    Didn't realise Veloce was available in UT...

    Ultra-torque is easy, just undo the bolt and the two halves should pull right out - it's a hex head and I can't remember the size but it's smaller the the one needed for PT. It should be pretty tight so you might need something like and old seat post over the allen key handle for some leverage.
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,913
    i.bhamra wrote:
    bianchimoon wrote:
    i.bhamra wrote:
    You are probably going to need a puller to get the Campy crankset out (I'm assuming it's a power-torque model) and a 14mm hex key to undo the bolt first. Tool isn't cheap, might be possible to modify a cheap generic puller but definitely easier to get LBS to pull the crank for you.
    Hi thanks, it's ultra torque campy, is there anyway it can be done without a puller, I'm a bit loathed to ask LBS since they're not getting the work or the sale of the 105 kit :(

    Didn't realise Veloce was available in UT...

    Ultra-torque is easy, just undo the bolt and the two halves should pull right out - it's a hex head and I can't remember the size but it's smaller the the one needed for PT. It should be pretty tight so you might need something like and old seat post over the allen key handle for some leverage.
    yes, sorry me not being clear, all the other gear is veloce but cranks and BB Ultra torque, so just a matter of putting 10mm Allen key through and loosening anti-clockwise from chains side?
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 23,944
    It's a 10 mm Allen Key, but you need a very long one or some contraption to adapt to a racket wrench
    http://whosatthewheel.com
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,913
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    It's a 10 mm Allen Key, but you need a very long one or some contraption to adapt to a racket wrench
    ahh thanks, all becoming clear now :)
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • i.bhamrai.bhamra Posts: 90
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    It's a 10 mm Allen Key, but you need a very long one or some contraption to adapt to a racket wrench

    I use a normal allen key but insert the long section into the bolt head and place an old seatpost over the short section to provide some leaverage. Can get away with it due to the width of the allen key, wouldn't work with a narrower allen key.
  • bondurantbondurant Posts: 783
    Or just buy one of these: https://www.wiggle.co.uk/campagnolo-ultra-torque-axle-bolt-tool
  • craigus89craigus89 Posts: 863
    I'm sure you have this in hand, but rear hub compatible?
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,913
    craigus89 wrote:
    I'm sure you have this in hand, but rear hub compatible?
    Yes, part of the reason is I have more Shimano parts/wheels than Campag, makes more sense to standardise it all
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • protoproto Posts: 1,475
    bianchimoon wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    It's a 10 mm Allen Key, but you need a very long one or some contraption to adapt to a racket wrench
    ahh thanks, all becoming clear now :)

    There’s a spring clip around the outside of the drive side UT cup. You’ll need to remove this before pulling out the RH cranks arm.
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,913
    proto wrote:
    bianchimoon wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    It's a 10 mm Allen Key, but you need a very long one or some contraption to adapt to a racket wrench
    ahh thanks, all becoming clear now :)

    There’s a spring clip around the outside of the drive side UT cup. You’ll need to remove this before pulling out the RH cranks arm.
    Ahh thanks, finally found a 10mm Allen key with long arm, am I right in thinking this will only fit in from the chain side?
    Then the cranks will come off, then release clip and then just a matter or unscrewing the ultra torque cups and clean/grease threads before putting new one in?
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • WheelspinnerWheelspinner Posts: 4,333
    bianchimoon wrote:
    proto wrote:
    bianchimoon wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    It's a 10 mm Allen Key, but you need a very long one or some contraption to adapt to a racket wrench
    ahh thanks, all becoming clear now :)

    There’s a spring clip around the outside of the drive side UT cup. You’ll need to remove this before pulling out the RH cranks arm.
    Ahh thanks, finally found a 10mm Allen key with long arm, am I right in thinking this will only fit in from the chain side?
    Then the cranks will come off, then release clip and then just a matter or unscrewing the ultra torque cups and clean/grease threads before putting new one in?
    Basically yes that’s it, although circlip off before drive side crank will come out.

    What frame? Assume BB is English? Long as the new BB is the same you’re good.
    Fast Faster Fastest Fun Filthy
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,913
    Wheelspinner wrote:
    bianchimoon wrote:
    proto wrote:
    bianchimoon wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    It's a 10 mm Allen Key, but you need a very long one or some contraption to adapt to a racket wrench
    ahh thanks, all becoming clear now :)

    There’s a spring clip around the outside of the drive side UT cup. You’ll need to remove this before pulling out the RH cranks arm.
    Ahh thanks, finally found a 10mm Allen key with long arm, am I right in thinking this will only fit in from the chain side?
    Then the cranks will come off, then release clip and then just a matter or unscrewing the ultra torque cups and clean/grease threads before putting new one in?
    Basically yes that’s it, although circlip off before drive side crank will come out.

    What frame? Assume BB is English? Long as the new BB is the same you’re good.
    Bianchi Intenso so am aspired its an English BB?
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,913
    bianchimoon wrote:
    Wheelspinner wrote:
    bianchimoon wrote:
    proto wrote:
    bianchimoon wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    It's a 10 mm Allen Key, but you need a very long one or some contraption to adapt to a racket wrench
    ahh thanks, all becoming clear now :)

    There’s a spring clip around the outside of the drive side UT cup. You’ll need to remove this before pulling out the RH cranks arm.
    Ahh thanks, finally found a 10mm Allen key with long arm, am I right in thinking this will only fit in from the chain side?
    Then the cranks will come off, then release clip and then just a matter or unscrewing the ultra torque cups and clean/grease threads before putting new one in?
    Basically yes that’s it, although circlip off before drive side crank will come out.

    What frame? Assume BB is English? Long as the new BB is the same you’re good.
    Bianchi Intenso so am assured its an English BB?
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,571
    as an aside, why are you downgrading the gruppo?
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,913
    Matthewfalle wrote:
    as an aside, why are you downgrading the gruppo?
    The basic veloce group set is quiet old Matthew, things are wearing out and I have a lot more shimano parts than campag, especially wheels. The smart trainer has shimano cassette on, summer bike is Di2, so in the long run sticking to one standard should save a few minor headaches. I thought the ultra torque bb/cups were a lot more complicated and fiddly than the ultegra BB I’ve just fitted.
    Re the removal, it was a nightmare, the cups were seized solid, no amount of force and we tried everything could shift the drive side, a grinder and hacksaw with the help of someone a lot more careful and knowledgeable than me became the only solution. Alls well that ends well :D
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,913
    spoke too soon :) Question, when the new cranks are in place should there be any of the 'axle' showing on the drive side?, I seem to have 2 or 3mm of bare axle showing? I didn't want to use force to see if it would go all the way through, but do I need a rubber mallet to knock it the final few mm's?
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • i.bhamrai.bhamra Posts: 90
    bianchimoon wrote:
    spoke too soon :) Question, when the new cranks are in place should there be any of the 'axle' showing on the drive side?, I seem to have 2 or 3mm of bare axle showing? I didn't want to use force to see if it would go all the way through, but do I need a rubber mallet to knock it the final few mm's?

    It's not unusual to need to give the hollowtech cranks a tap with a mallet or similar to fully seat them. Alternatively if enough has gone through the non-drive side (sounds like it has) for you to fit the LHS crank arm AND for the bolt to engage with the threads on the spindle then simply tightening up the bolt should pull the crank in all the way. Remember not to over tighten the bolt, you just need to take up any slack. The pinch bolts are then tightened up to keep everything in place.
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,913
    i.bhamra wrote:
    bianchimoon wrote:
    spoke too soon :) Question, when the new cranks are in place should there be any of the 'axle' showing on the drive side?, I seem to have 2 or 3mm of bare axle showing? I didn't want to use force to see if it would go all the way through, but do I need a rubber mallet to knock it the final few mm's?

    It's not unusual to need to give the hollowtech cranks a tap with a mallet or similar to fully seat them. Alternatively if enough has gone through the non-drive side (sounds like it has) for you to fit the LHS crank arm AND for the bolt to engage with the threads on the spindle then simply tightening up the bolt should pull the crank in all the way. Remember not to over tighten the bolt, you just need to take up any slack. The pinch bolts are then tightened up to keep everything in place.

    Ahh thanks I've tightened the left hand side bolt, but was wary of tightening too much as all of the info said it shouldn't take much tightening. I'll loosen everything and try tapping RH side through to get rid of the 2mm of axle showing and see if that works - ta
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,286
    I swap HT2 chainsets around all the time. I often find I have to give the spider a whack with the flat of my hand to get the spindle all the way through. Never had to resort to a mallet, and I think you'd risk stripping the threads off the plastic preload bolt if you routinely use that as a means of pulling the thing together.
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,286
    Matthewfalle wrote:
    as an aside, why are you downgrading the gruppo?

    Stop that now! :D
  • i.bhamrai.bhamra Posts: 90
    keef66 wrote:
    I swap HT2 chainsets around all the time. I often find I have to give the spider a whack with the flat of my hand to get the spindle all the way through. Never had to resort to a mallet, and I think you'd risk stripping the threads off the plastic preload bolt if you routinely use that as a means of pulling the thing together.

    It requires very little torque in my experience ie just turn the bolt tool by hand and as multiple threads are already engaged, very unlikely to strip threads. Of course common sense should be applied, if you are having to apply series effort to pull the crank in then somethings not right.

    Also if you over tighten you can just back the bolt out a bit once the crank is fully home...
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,286
    Thinking about it logically that plastic bolt is designed to apply some sideways force to preload the bearings, so as long as you have most of the threads engaged and the axle is a firm, sliding fit through the BB it should nip up any play.
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,913
    Just an update, hit it with my palm a few times and it started to move, so a sharp tap with a rubber mallet got it into the correct place, all tightened and torqued up now, just waiting for cable cutters to arrive then gear and brakes set up. :)

    PS thanks to all for you help/advice, much appreciated :)
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • pinnopinno Posts: 37,471
    Matthewfalle wrote:
    as an aside, why are you downgrading the gruppo?

    I thought this too.

    Best VFM: Chorus.
    S - The Brazilian beach volleyball team
    W - Wiggle Honda

    "This year will be harder than last year. But that is good news; this year will be easier than next year."
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,913
    pinno wrote:
    Matthewfalle wrote:
    as an aside, why are you downgrading the gruppo?

    I thought this too.

    Best VFM: Chorus.
    Brexit innit, soon be impossible to import campagnolo parts, I can’t take the risk of waiting for to be overturned and don’t want to pay the massive extra import tariffs... or could be something to do with my earlier posts :wink:
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • pinnopinno Posts: 37,471
    bianchimoon wrote:
    ... or could be something to do with my earlier posts :wink:

    That aside, sometimes decisions are from the heart, not the head.

    Got that thing together yet?
    S - The Brazilian beach volleyball team
    W - Wiggle Honda

    "This year will be harder than last year. But that is good news; this year will be easier than next year."
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,913
    pinno wrote:
    bianchimoon wrote:
    ... or could be something to do with my earlier posts :wink:

    That aside, sometimes decisions are from the heart, not the head.

    Got that thing together yet?
    Didn’t quiet get the logistics right, was planning to use a dremel to cut cables, but decided to add to the toolkit with some cable cutters, should be delivered today, then route cables, set up gears, retape the bars and on the road :)
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
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