Are Oxbridge Grads more desirable employees?
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Mr Goo wrote:Ability in my opinion has nothing to do with getting well paid senior jobs.
Up until my redundancy this time last year, I worked for the UK operations of a very large Dutch multi-national. The senior management were the most inept cabal of individuals I have encountered. Survival in their vaulted positions relied on them looking out for each other. Failure on targets was tackled by making redundancies and selling off assets.
And they all had big watches, and the MD drove a Range Rover Sport (which as you know is my pet hate).
But they were "found out", maybe by you and the workers at said company but nevertheless, found out they were.
We all know that there will be exceptions to the rule in any walk of life and more so now than ever I am fully aware that life isnt fair at times but we have to go with the throw.
My advice to anyway, do what you can to get on, as long as your not hurting anyone in the process do anything you can to get what you want, one life folks !Living MY dream.0 -
VTech wrote:Mr Goo wrote:Ability in my opinion has nothing to do with getting well paid senior jobs.
Up until my redundancy this time last year, I worked for the UK operations of a very large Dutch multi-national. The senior management were the most inept cabal of individuals I have encountered. Survival in their vaulted positions relied on them looking out for each other. Failure on targets was tackled by making redundancies and selling off assets.
And they all had big watches, and the MD drove a Range Rover Sport (which as you know is my pet hate).
But they were "found out", maybe by you and the workers at said company but nevertheless, found out they were.
We all know that there will be exceptions to the rule in any walk of life and more so now than ever I am fully aware that life isnt fair at times but we have to go with the throw.
My advice to anyway, do what you can to get on, as long as your not hurting anyone in the process do anything you can to get what you want, one life folks !
They weren't found out. That's the sad thing. They jumped before they were pushed. Laughable thing is the MD became European MD of a firm at Winchester and recruited his mate the HR director. The press release was hilarious. I didn't recognise the person. Failure or Failing people at the top seem to get rewarded all the time.
This is not a gripe on my part. I wouldn't want the responsibility that goes with a senior position nor the expected sacrifice of a private life.Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.0 -
Private life as you say is the issue, at some point in our life we would give anything to have the time wasted at work back.Living MY dream.0
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Some interesting preconceptions or is that misconceptions?
In case anyone doesn't know there are 2 universities in Oxford, Oxford Uni and Oxford Brookes Uni. I know quite a few people who have got their degree from Brookes and they consider their time there as "a great piss up while we looked for a career path" this is not a slur on Brookes but I have heard it quite a few times.
On the other hand I work with the students at an Oxford College and see how hard they actually work. The interview process to gain admission is very difficult and the tutors/selectors require real commitment and dedication. They are also looking for people with an aptitude to be able to learn in a unique self study environment. It is no coincidence that employers give credence to Oxbridge students especially if they understand the extremely high standards set and expected by these 2 institutions. There are also many people who do not make the grade and do not finish their studies because of those very high standards.
If the op's son has a chance to study at Cambridge then I would suggest he grabs that opportunity with both hands because the reputation of that uni will stay with him for the rest of his life and he will know that his degree or whatever post grad qualifications will have been earned by hard work.
Jobs for the boys? Not nowadays but lifelong friendships and mutual respect most definitely.
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night_porter wrote:In case anyone doesn't know there are 2 universities in Oxford, Oxford Uni and Oxford Brookes Uni. I know quite a few people who have got their degree from Brookes and they consider their time there as "a great wee-wee up while we looked for a career path" this is not a slur on Brookes but I have heard it quite a few times.
On the other hand I work with the students at an Oxford College and see how hard they actually work.
Not much point comparing Oxford to Brookes though is there, they're in completely different leagues and there's no arguing about that. Obviously students studying a degree at Oxford or Cambridge are going to have to work hard as they only offer proper degrees in proper subjects with none of this spa management or golf course management...
Do students at Oxford and Cambridge necessarily any better than or work any harder than students doing the same degrees at other places such as Imperial, Kings, St. Andrews, LSE, Durham, Bath though?
Totally agree with what you've said about their selectivity though, if I were doing a more normalish degree I'd probably have been very attracted to them because of this, getting in would be an acheivement and big deal (for me at least) etc.0 -
Out of interest, can you buy a place at both of those universities ?Living MY dream.0
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Don't know about buying but they do offer some scholarship places.0
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VTech wrote:Out of interest, can you buy a place at both of those universities ?
I cannot speak for Cambridge but ours is the oldest college, of the 38 colleges that make up Oxford University and the answer is categorically no!
Given that the admissions criteria is all about academic excellence then I doubt it very much. Incidentally we interview 3 times the amount of people that offers are made to so getting an interview is no guarantee of a place.
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VTech wrote:Out of interest, can you buy a place at both of those universities ?
If you can I should think it will be harder than it used to be given the scrutiny universities are under when it comes to being accessible to people from all backgrounds, and Oxford and Cambridge are amongst those under most pressure.
There's always going to be a way to get around things though, quite popular for people who want to do something, like Medicine, to go off, do a degree first in a sciency subject, get a good grade in that then apply again for whatever it is they want to do. Very pricey as there's no student loans for 2nd degrees so only accessible for people with money, even more so as full fees are often more expensive, some vet schools for instance charge around £20,000 a year as opposed to the normal £3/£9,000 for people studying it as a 2nd degree.0 -
Fail. Delta minus, or even Epsilon for you, my young graduand.night_porter wrote:VTech wrote:Out of interest, can you buy a place at both of those universities ?
I cannot speak for Cambridge but ours is the oldest college, of the 38 colleges that make up Oxford University and the answer is categorically no!
Given that the admissions criteria is all about academic excellence then I doubt it very much. Incidentally we interview 3 times the amount of people that offers are made to so getting an interview is no guarantee of a place.
NP
You can of course buy a place there, difference is it just takes more money than even the most pushy British parent has: Donate one of these http://www.sbs.ox.ac.uk/ and your daughter gets in no questions asked...Fitter....healthier....more productive.....0 -
There's the solution - parents with money to spare can buy a property in an MD20 area (this is in Scotland, I assume there is an equivalent in Englandshire). By definition the property will be a lot cheaper than 6 years at a top public school - and the top universities, as AB points out, are under a lot of pressure to recruit plebs (St Andrews, Scotland's snootiest uni, was recently found to have just 13 MD20 students, i.e. from the poorest 20% of postcodes, out of over 7000) and so are falling over themselves to throw money, and guaranteed places, at the problem.Angry Bird wrote:VTech wrote:Out of interest, can you buy a place at both of those universities ?
If you can I should think it will be harder than it used to be given the scrutiny universities are under when it comes to being accessible to people from all backgrounds, and Oxford and Cambridge are amongst those under most pressure.
Of course, you may hesitate to take the necessary accompanying action, which is to send Henry to the malodorous local comp...0 -
4kicks wrote:
Fail. Delta minus, or even Epsilon for you, my young graduand.night_porter wrote:VTech wrote:Out of interest, can you buy a place at both of those universities ?
I cannot speak for Cambridge but ours is the oldest college, of the 38 colleges that make up Oxford University and the answer is categorically no!
Given that the admissions criteria is all about academic excellence then I doubt it very much. Incidentally we interview 3 times the amount of people that offers are made to so getting an interview is no guarantee of a place.
NP
You can of course buy a place there, difference is it just takes more money than even the most pushy British parent has: Donate one of these http://www.sbs.ox.ac.uk/ and your daughter gets in no questions asked...
An MBA is not a degree it is a post graduate qualification and the rules are different for people who already have a degree and wish to study further. Most post grad courses are self funded anyway, not quite the same as buying a place for an undergrad.0 -
Indeed, but Wafic Saïds daughter got an UNDERGRADUATE degree about the same time her dad build the MBA centre.
Coincidence?Fitter....healthier....more productive.....0 -
4kicks wrote:Indeed, but Wafic Saïds daughter got an UNDERGRADUATE degree about the same time her dad build the MBA centre.
Coincidence?
In all honesty she must have had the relevant qualifications and aptitude to attend. I suppose you could say that people buy a place by going to a private school that understands the selection process and educate and motivate their students accordingly. But they still have to work to achieve that knowledge it isn't (as was implied) automatic because you have or give money. Just as I said before being here does not guarantee you will get a degree, you have to work very hard for it.
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I agree with NP, undergrad admission is incredibly tough these days. I chose somewhere else to study, but I have a lot of friends who went to Ox, and they are all very bright. If you can buy your way in then it's only a miniscule minority with the right connections who can.
As for post grad, that's a different kettle of fish. If you can fund your own PhD, it's not particularly difficult to get in.0 -
Im not surprised to see current students defending it as a thorough and rigourous meritocracy. I
thought the same 20 (my god) year ago - except I chose the right shade of blue. It would be interesting to see if your perspectives change in 20 years.... or is Teddy Hall no longer full of "tim nice but dim" wet bods studying land economy, their only qualifications being a physique like gorillas on steroids?Fitter....healthier....more productive.....0 -
4kicks wrote:Im not surprised to see current students defending it as a thorough and rigourous meritocracy. I
thought the same 20 (my god) year ago - except I chose the right shade of blue. It would be interesting to see if your perspectives change in 20 years.... or is Teddy Hall no longer full of "tim nice but dim" wet bods studying land economy, their only qualifications being a physique like gorillas on steroids?
If you are asking about 20 years ago then it was a different place to now. There was an article about freshers in last years Times that almost said the stigma attached to coming from private/public school meant students kept their backgrounds a mystery to prevent prejudice. Coming from state schools is more the norm now than you would think, it really is a meritocracy despite what outsiders think.
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4kicks wrote:Indeed, but Wafic Saïds daughter got an UNDERGRADUATE degree about the same time her dad build the MBA centre.
Coincidence?
I can vouch that its a very nice Business school if that makes any difference?
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Now this is a desirable employee.
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Ballysmate wrote:Now this is a desirable employee.
Now thats the kind I employ although as I have said earlier, ive made mistakes
Living MY dream.0 -
In short, the answer to the original question is an emphatic "yes".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-24024767BBC News website wrote:with graduates from Oxford and Cambridge rated as the world's most employable by 27,000 global graduate employers polled for the ranking.0 -
Ballysmate wrote:Now this is a desirable employee.
So if I wear that outfit with a Rolex to my next interview, I'm bound to get the job!0 -
greasedscotsman wrote:Ballysmate wrote:Now this is a desirable employee.
So if I wear that outfit with a Rolex to my next interview, I'm bound to get the job!
I am reliably informed that those would be great features for some jobs currently on offer
Living MY dream.0
