Are Oxbridge Grads more desirable employees?

VTech

Sounds feasible Pross.

Does anyone know of any stats of University graduates who end up in jobs paying more than their course fees and associated costs ? Now that would be a great read I think.

arran77

A quick search shows that Family Investment have done research that says students starting university this year can expect total annual costs of £20,000 so after 3 or 4 years of this totting up I'd guess there are some who will see their first salary exceed this but probably not too many.

angry_bird

Pross wrote:

My own ill informed opinion is that it is dependent on subject. I associate certain unis with certain subjects so:
Bath - vets

Not sure where that ones coming from but I'm fairly sure they don't have a vet school there unless they've been very cunning about it

Pross

Angry Bird wrote:

Pross wrote:

My own ill informed opinion is that it is dependent on subject. I associate certain unis with certain subjects so:
Bath - vets

Not sure where that ones coming from but I'm fairly sure they don't have a vet school there unless they've been very cunning about it

:oops: Meant Bristol but then again Bath is just a posh suburb of east Bristol isn't it?

simonhead

arran77 wrote:

A quick search shows that Family Investment have done research that says students starting university this year can expect total annual costs of £20,000 so after 3 or 4 years of this totting up I'd guess there are some who will see their first salary exceed this but probably not too many.

I think there are numerous careers where you can get a starting salary in excess of the ammount you are in debt. I know of companies in the Oil and Gas world in the London area that will pay £30k as a starting salary for a good grad with a solid engineering degree.

That said, if you have a degree in a less focussed subject ie media studies or business you may find it difficult to get a job much above minimum wage unless you get a break. I recently advertised a junior accounts role in London paying £22k and they were looking for a grad with a business degree or similar, I had over 300 applicants.

arran77

simonhead wrote:

arran77 wrote:

A quick search shows that Family Investment have done research that says students starting university this year can expect total annual costs of £20,000 so after 3 or 4 years of this totting up I'd guess there are some who will see their first salary exceed this but probably not too many.

I think there are numerous careers where you can get a starting salary in excess of the ammount you are in debt. I know of companies in the Oil and Gas world in the London area that will pay £30k as a starting salary for a good grad with a solid engineering degree.

That said, if you have a degree in a less focussed subject ie media studies or business you may find it difficult to get a job much above minimum wage unless you get a break. I recently advertised a junior accounts role in London paying £22k and they were looking for a grad with a business degree or similar, I had over 300 applicants.

I assumed that VTech meant annual salary exceeding total debt, i.e. £60-80k salary a year as a graduate?

Starting salary of in excess of one years fees / costs (£20k) is probably pretty easy I'd think, when I started work after doing a totally irrelevant degree I was earning around £15k and my employer started me off on a degree that was relevant to my career and that was back in the late 90's

simonhead

arran77 wrote:

simonhead wrote:

arran77 wrote:

A quick search shows that Family Investment have done research that says students starting university this year can expect total annual costs of £20,000 so after 3 or 4 years of this totting up I'd guess there are some who will see their first salary exceed this but probably not too many.

I think there are numerous careers where you can get a starting salary in excess of the ammount you are in debt. I know of companies in the Oil and Gas world in the London area that will pay £30k as a starting salary for a good grad with a solid engineering degree.

That said, if you have a degree in a less focussed subject ie media studies or business you may find it difficult to get a job much above minimum wage unless you get a break. I recently advertised a junior accounts role in London paying £22k and they were looking for a grad with a business degree or similar, I had over 300 applicants.

I assumed that VTech meant annual salary exceeding total debt, i.e. £60-80k salary a year as a graduate?

Starting salary of in excess of one years fees / costs (£20k) is probably pretty easy I'd think, when I started work after doing a totally irrelevant degree I was earning around £15k and my employer started me off on a degree that was relevant to my career and that was back in the late 90's

VTech is talking worst case scenario in terms of debt, if you have well of parents or can find a decent part time job your debt is likely to be considerably lower, probably closer to £35k over the 3 year course. It is certainly going to be harder for those going to universities where fees are £9k a year.

croptonboy

Daz555 wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

I work for one of the biggest engineering employers in the UK - all your degree does it get you on the 'yes' pile - the rest is down to character and attitude which we do through online testing, assessment centres and interviews.

....and a degree from Oxford will get you in more yes piles than one from Plymouth.

This!

If I could only interview 1 person, with 2 people applying, with identical grades, studying identical courses, 1 studied at Oxbridge and the other at Plymouth, unless there was something that shouted NO on their CV, I'd interview the Oxbridge candidate.

However, if they studied different subjects, I'd go for the one who's degree was relevant to the job if that applied. For example, I work in IT and if Plymouth grad studies Computer Science, and Oxford grad sociology, then Plymouth grad would be on my yes pile.

arran77

Ah yes, the bank of Mum and Dad

arran77

Croptonboy wrote:

Daz555 wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

I work for one of the biggest engineering employers in the UK - all your degree does it get you on the 'yes' pile - the rest is down to character and attitude which we do through online testing, assessment centres and interviews.

....and a degree from Oxford will get you in more yes piles than one from Plymouth.

This!

If I could only interview 1 person, with 2 people applying, with identical grades, studying identical courses, 1 studied at Oxbridge and the other at Plymouth, unless there was something that shouted NO on their CV, I'd interview the Oxbridge candidate.

However, if they studied different subjects, I'd go for the one who's degree was relevant to the job if that applied. For example, I work in IT and if Plymouth grad studies Computer Science, and Oxford grad sociology, then Plymouth grad would be on my yes pile.

Enough of this Plymouth bashing, I studied there

VTech

Think of uni like football teams but where the money goes the opposite way.

It seems unstable and I have a feeling that the charges are a good way of stopping a massive influx of students who on the whole take from the system with the losers being the students who really want to work.

I know plenty of people who when asked about why they do uni answered that it was something to do, no job etc and simply fancied student life.
Surely this is an issue on a large scale ?
Not everyone is clever, not everyone will solve the world problems and run global companies, some of us will dig roads and stack shelves but thats great, as long as we have an input and do something.

How many students are in uni solely to get a vocation and a set path in life ?

simonhead

arran77 wrote:

Croptonboy wrote:

Daz555 wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

I work for one of the biggest engineering employers in the UK - all your degree does it get you on the 'yes' pile - the rest is down to character and attitude which we do through online testing, assessment centres and interviews.

....and a degree from Oxford will get you in more yes piles than one from Plymouth.

This!

If I could only interview 1 person, with 2 people applying, with identical grades, studying identical courses, 1 studied at Oxbridge and the other at Plymouth, unless there was something that shouted NO on their CV, I'd interview the Oxbridge candidate.

However, if they studied different subjects, I'd go for the one who's degree was relevant to the job if that applied. For example, I work in IT and if Plymouth grad studies Computer Science, and Oxford grad sociology, then Plymouth grad would be on my yes pile.

Enough of this Plymouth bashing, I studied there

Plymouth has a good reputation for Marine and Environmental science, has a good student union and there are more girls than lads.

cedargreen

Surely there can be no doubt about the superiority of Oxbridge graduates. After all, they dominate fields like politics, banking and the civil service, which are all...err......oh.....

arran77

cedargreen wrote:

Surely there can be no doubt about the superiority of Oxbridge graduates. After all, they dominate fields like politics, banking and the civil service, which are all...err......oh.....

You're confusing superiority with 'jobs for the boys' :P

rick_chasey

Depends what job you want.

Right degree from Oxbridge that isnt a deza or anything worse probably gets your foot in the door at top end FS and management consultancy firms. £££££.

chrisaonabike

http://www.dilbert.com/fast/2013-09-04/

bernithebiker

Pross wrote:

My own ill informed opinion is that it is dependent on subject. I associate certain unis with certain subjects so:

Cambridge - sciences / law
Oxford - humanities / law / economics
Imperial - engineering
Bath - vets
Kings College London - medicine
etc

I did mechanical engineering at Kings College London but was in a minority. Met my wife (geography) by checking out the new 1st years!

There were lots of meds and lawyers. One med used to pick his fingernails in the bar, telling us that it was part of the corpse he had just dissected......

4kicks

off corse Cambridge Grads are beter. wear just smarter, innit.

Having recruited for Procter & Gamble and then for McKinsey there is an undoubted "looks like us" snobbery resulting in a heavy bias towards "the Glittering Prizes". All things being equal Id pick a Cantab over Scumbags Poly any day.
But of course all things are NOT equal, and whilst an Oxbridge degree will, as many have postulated, get you the interview, as an interviewer you're still looking for the "spike" (as the Firm used to call it), that distinctiveness which means the recruit would be a real asset.
But Im sitting on a mountain in Mallorca drinking a very good Merlot, so what the hell do I know...

VTech

4kicks wrote:

off corse Cambridge Grads are beter. wear just smarter, innit.

Having recruited for Procter & Gamble and then for McKinsey there is an undoubted "looks like us" snobbery resulting in a heavy bias towards "the Glittering Prizes". All things being equal Id pick a Cantab over Scumbags Poly any day.
But of course all things are NOT equal, and whilst an Oxbridge degree will, as many have postulated, get you the interview, as an interviewer you're still looking for the "spike" (as the Firm used to call it), that distinctiveness which means the recruit would be a real asset.
But Im sitting on a mountain in Mallorca drinking a very good Merlot, so what the hell do I know...

Maybe a lot more than the grad from oxford/camb who hasnt got a pot to p155 in as he cant get a job ?

4kicks

Napoleon was reputed to ask of his Senior Officer appointments "yes, but is he lucky?"
Point being I graduated, totally debt free into a universe of 3% unemployment in 1993, after having studied Engineering and being sponsored by industry and a year in the Army, hence loads of "grown up" experiences. I really dont envy someone graduating today with a less marketable degree. Im here today because of 1% perspiration, 99% luck, no doubt..
But even now I still know whos more employable

VTech

4kicks wrote:

Napoleon was reputed to ask of his Senior Officer appointments "yes, but is he lucky?"
Point being I graduated, totally debt free into a universe of 3% unemployment in 1993, after having studied Engineering and being sponsored by industry and a year in the Army, hence loads of "grown up" experiences. I really dont envy someone graduating today with a less marketable degree. Im here today because of 1% perspiration, 99% luck, no doubt..
But even now I still know whos more employable

You may have a point but I also believe you make your own luck so 99% luck, maybe.....maybe not.
You have to be in the game to win the prize. Too many people are never really in the game, rather just "tagging along"

alihisgreat

I'm an Oxford undergrad... I know from experience that Oxbridge Grads should be more desirable employees in general.. but whether they actually are in practice? I don't know.. I think it depends on the type of employer

eg. Large high end employers obviously have lots of experience with Oxbridge grads and recognize their value.. but smaller lower end employers wouldn't necessarily have enough exposure to be able to understand the value of an Oxbridge degree.


I'm talking in general though.. because as with any University there is a wide range of abilities on display.

greasedscotsman

I bet they aren't as good at dancing!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-23972952

chrisaonabike

greasedscotsman wrote:

I bet they aren't as good at dancing!

Are you kidding? The only harder-fought varsity competition than the boat race is on the ballroom dance floor.

badgerbeaver

For what it's worth, I've worked with a lot of Oxbridge candidates, and I have hired a few too. As you would expect, I found them all to be very smart, all very different in their strengths and weaknesses.

By no means would it be fair to level accusations of being too clever or not practical - I find these are the kind of things that people say when they are probably a bit jealous.

thecm

Depends on what it the role is. Personally I prefer graduates with a more balanced educational background who are more able to deal with people from a wide range of backgrounds that they'd have encountered during their life to that point.

rick_chasey

TheCM wrote:

Depends on what it the role is. Personally I prefer graduates with a more balanced educational background who are more able to deal with people from a wide range of backgrounds that they'd have encountered during their life to that point.

Judging people skills purely on where someone went to university strikes me as a bad recruitment process.

team47b

...one up from using the 'what watch is he he wearing' method

VTech

team47b wrote:

...one up from using the 'what watch is he he wearing' method

Who has used that most stupid of methods though ?
Or is it a case of people "making things up for popularity" ?

qualifications may get you in the door but without ability they are almost all found out.

mr_goo

Ability in my opinion has nothing to do with getting well paid senior jobs.
Up until my redundancy this time last year, I worked for the UK operations of a very large Dutch multi-national. The senior management were the most inept cabal of individuals I have encountered. Survival in their vaulted positions relied on them looking out for each other. Failure on targets was tackled by making redundancies and selling off assets.
And they all had big watches, and the MD drove a Range Rover Sport (which as you know is my pet hate).