Drafting on a Sportive.
NITR8s
Posts: 688
I recently done the Exmoor beast and it really anoyed me the amount of people who decieded to draft me and not even bother to tell me they are there or return the favour.
Going along the A39 towards lynmouth, me and my friend are cycling side by side agaisnt the headwind and I turn around to see a large group of riders tucked inbehind us. They must have stayed there for the whole stretch of the road and not once said a word or pushed out in front to share the work. This is ok, it makes me feel good that you value my cycling ability to draft me but please signal to the rider in front to make them aware that you are directly behind.
What isnt ok is not telling me you are right on my arse and then shouting at me for stopping, when I have pulled into the side of the road as far as possible. How am I expected to know that you are right up my arse, if you dont let me know. I am not pyschic, I dont have eyes in the back of my head and guess what I am not cycling with you, so i may deciede to stop when you are not. Draft if you want but share some indication that you are there.
Going along the A39 towards lynmouth, me and my friend are cycling side by side agaisnt the headwind and I turn around to see a large group of riders tucked inbehind us. They must have stayed there for the whole stretch of the road and not once said a word or pushed out in front to share the work. This is ok, it makes me feel good that you value my cycling ability to draft me but please signal to the rider in front to make them aware that you are directly behind.
What isnt ok is not telling me you are right on my arse and then shouting at me for stopping, when I have pulled into the side of the road as far as possible. How am I expected to know that you are right up my arse, if you dont let me know. I am not pyschic, I dont have eyes in the back of my head and guess what I am not cycling with you, so i may deciede to stop when you are not. Draft if you want but share some indication that you are there.
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Sounds like you need to be more aware of whats going on around you. It's a sportive, there's lots of cyclists on the road so maybe you should look behind you before you stop!0
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NITR8s wrote:Thanks it took me a pathetic 9 hours and 41 mins to complete the 100 mile, but not once did I get off my bike to walk up a hill. I bet there are people out there who no doubt did a faster time than me and walked up a few of the hills. (Most Proberbly the ones in the loop near the end). For these people I have little respect.
Sorry, but it looks like any poor soul drafting you obviously needed a hand and lighten up, why all the anger?0 -
I dunno was in a bit of a mood this morning, Im over it now.0
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Did you win the sportive though?
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I can kind of see NITR8's point, but yes on a sportive you do have to accept that some drafting will be going on. What i do agree with is bad manners. If you're gonna draft on a sportive at least people should have the decency to say thanks or give a little wave of appreciation. Afterall, sportives are meant to be a social & friendly event are they not?0
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nunowoolmez wrote:I can kind of see NITR8's point, but yes on a sportive you do have to accept that some drafting will be going on. What i do agree with is bad manners. If you're gonna draft on a sportive at least people should have the decency to say thanks or give a little wave of appreciation. Afterall, sportives are meant to be a social & friendly event are they not?
Not according to NITR8s0 -
Ok. I haven't slept since I read this so I have to come clean.
This is addressed to the 2 riders, one in blue the other in red, who were riding together between St. Marie de Cuines and St. Michel de Maurienne at about 10.30 on Sat July 7th last. You were taking part in the Marmotte and, if you are like the OP, you may not have noticed the 60+ riders who were attached to your rear wheels for that 20 odd kms. If you did look, I was the guy in the red and white Gore top, 2 back on the inside.
It has been on my conscience since that I did not help out or offer my thanks but I am delighted to do so publicly now.
ps If you happen to be in the same situation again next year, could you up the pace by about 1-2 kph? I could have handled it but felt it might have been rude to ask at the time!0 -
Bit of an odd opinion I know but drafting on a sportive seems a bit pointless anyway. Isn't the "challenge" of a big ride that you tackle that course under your own steam, not get towed halfway round by a guy in front of you?0
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^^^^ This0
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Seems a bit odd entering a mass participation event if you are going to ride it like a time trial. Not everyone in a sportive is trying to "race" it but part of the challenge of getting round fast is using/cooperating with other riders - it's a skill and it adds something to the challenge.
It's not just about being able to ride on a wheel or in a group - though that' s part of it - it's judging when to put in extra effort to go with a faster group or when to push on on your own if you are in a group travelling slower than you'd like.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
Being a big lad I get drafted a lot of sportives usually when on the flat and dont let it bother me. During last years marmotte I was leap frogging from group to group along the valley heading towards the Telegraph. 10km's on I ran out of groups and looked back and me and my mate had a train of several hundred behind us - felt awesome.
Did not feel awesome when at the bottom of the telegraph a group of 20 odd took off and left me for dust. Got a clap on the back from several though as they passed and a cheer from them several kms on when I managed to claw myself back to the group.
I sometimes draft others though - sometimes you have bad day or go through a low point on sportives and drafting is all you can do until you feel better.Brian B.0 -
Oh dear riding behind some else while riding a mass participation (not a race) event - terrible !!! :shock:
Well done the chap who made the public apology
The next time I ride one of these events (I don't do many and only ever for charity) I will neither draft or allow some scumbag to draft me - there the world is a better place already :roll:Fcn 5
Cube attempt 20100 -
99% of my riding/training is done alone so it feels weird drafting someone. I don't care if someone else does it with me but because it feels so different I prefer not to. I'd end up feeling I hadn't made the full effort to get to the end.0
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Why have time related standards Gold, Silver and Bronze (now where have I seen that before) in a Non-Competitive Road Event?
There many sportives advertised as being run under BC guidelines which state that no event should be run with standards that involve riding at an average speed above 18mph (irrespective of terrain by the way). There are plenty of sportives that have Gold classification that with time taken for stops cannot be achieved without riding at an average speed of below 18mph. By drafting, a rider’s average speed can go up significantly, unfortunately as we see in the pro peloton this raises the danger aspect associated with riding in a bunch, there is an obvious direct relationship between numbers of bikes in close proximity and the likely hood of crashes, particularly with the added complication of other road users.
There have been seen instances of riders missing out feed stations to help with their perceived o/a time to do the event. This can lead to riders eventually becoming fatigued/hyperglycaemic and a danger then to themselves and other riders/road users.
So get rid of the timing chips, standards and the pseudo racing as far as possible, this would enable the event costs to be lowered along with price of taking part. If the riders want to know how long it took them to do the ride there are plenty of commercially available electronic devises that do the job.
If you want to know where you 'came overall' get BC’s Race Cover and race in a proper run road race.
It is only a matter of time before a sportive organiser is hauled up in court and is facing someone suing for damages as a result of setting up circumstances in an event that constitute an unnecessary danger to participants, especially the Gold Standard (racing) business. It is no good just bunging in the Highway Code cop-out when you have encouraged the circumstances to endanger road users, it won’t stand up in court.0 -
I don't have a problem with how sportives are run - I don't view them as dangerous. If the law as it stands means that organisers are running a legal risk then if they are happy to run it that is up to them - I'm glad some people do. Plenty of cyclist enjoy pseudo racing - including those with BC licences - it went on with chaingangs and training rides long before sportives existed. A road race is nothing like a sportive anyway - for a start a large proportion of sportive riders wouldn't survive the first couple of miles in the bunch so saying have a go at a road race is a non-starter.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
Oh goodie, it's at least a couple of months now since we've had one of those "all those thousands of sportivists in the UK are fat, too-rich deluded fools who should enter a proper race or else go and shoot themselves in a corner" threads0
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bompington wrote:Oh goodie, it's at least a couple of months now since we've had one of those "all those thousands of sportivists in the UK are fat, too-rich deluded fools who should enter a proper race or else go and shoot themselves in a corner" threads
SFB (youv'e already been told)0 -
Not sur'e what your'e on about ther'eRon Stuart wrote:bompington wrote:Oh goodie, it's at least a couple of months now since we've had one of those "all those thousands of sportivists in the UK are fat, too-rich deluded fools who should enter a proper race or else go and shoot themselves in a corner" threads
SFB (youv'e already been told)0 -
NITR8s wrote:They must have stayed there for the whole stretch of the road and not once said a word or pushed out in front to share the work.
This is very bad form and you have every right to feel aggrieved. One useful tactic in this situation is to force other riders to take the lead when unwilling to form a chain gang. Simply slow to a crawl and they will soon overtake, after-which you suck their wheels instead.0 -
If you're on the front and want to come off, just move to the right and (if necessary) wave the bunch through. If there's two of you, move apart and beckon the bunch through. Standard road etiquette.0
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Crank up the pace, see who falls out the back, sit up, join the back, recover, get back on the front and repeat 'till you're done or on your own again.0
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Quite funny, I would draft, but I'd return the favour and I'd expect to be waved through to do my fair share - I'd collabrate to work to get to the next group up the road.1-2-3-4 Tell me what you're looking for0
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Not sure what the OP's problem is. A sportive is a challenge, not a race (as has already been mentioned). Of course, being bike riders, many of us do want to finish as fast as possible, but I always take the view that the only 'real' race is myself against the course. If I can find a group that suits me and I'm struggling a bit, then I am all for sitting in. If on the other hand I see that people or sitting in behind me that's fine too, as it doesn't make any difference to my challenge.
To the OP, if the drafters weren't there what difference would it actually make to your event? The answer, at least from a time point of view, is none at all. So don't worry about it. I look at it as being able to help out some others you are struggling. If they are sandbagging (and I have had guys sit on my wheel for the last 20km then burst past me at the end!) ao what. They've won nothing and you know who was really the better on the day (if that matters to you)So this little yellow braclet makes me a better cyclist?0 -
Leroy42 wrote:Not sure what the OP's problem is. A sportive is a challenge, not a race (as has already been mentioned). Of course, being bike riders, many of us do want to finish as fast as possible, but I always take the view that the only 'real' race is myself against the course. If I can find a group that suits me and I'm struggling a bit, then I am all for sitting in. If on the other hand I see that people or sitting in behind me that's fine too, as it doesn't make any difference to my challenge.
To the OP, if the drafters weren't there what difference would it actually make to your event? The answer, at least from a time point of view, is none at all. So don't worry about it. I look at it as being able to help out some others you are struggling. If they are sandbagging (and I have had guys sit on my wheel for the last 20km then burst past me at the end!) ao what. They've won nothing and you know who was really the better on the day (if that matters to you)
Leroy,
You have missed the essential point here and that is one of safety. I am not sure exactly at what stage the OP pulled over but as far as I am concerned if I was to manoeuvre away from my current course I would check what was up my rear potentially and call out and indicate that I was "Stopping" or whatever. However it would be also prudent for a rider that has "tucked-in" behind to make their presence know verbally in a polite manner. It would also be good form to take a turn on the front if possible if you can't then back off as you are struggling anyway and are liable to make a fatigued mistake which in a bunch could get messy.
I have done numerous Audaxes, Sportives, at home and abroad and the one thing that is lacking a lot of the time in the UK is the verbal communication between the riders, maybe it's the old British shyness when confronted with strangers but being politely verbal sure as hell makes for a more pleasant and safer ride.
There are a lot of newish riders that are doing events that haven't come through the club route and mainly train on their own or in limited numbers. Please if you are one of these then do investigate the aspects of ride etiquette in relation to safety and ‘bon ami’.
Regards the OP’s thread it sounds like both he and the rider/s behind had lost their voices which is not the way to ride in a bunch.
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Ron Stuart wrote:So get rid of the timing chips, standards and the pseudo racing as far as possible, this would enable the event costs to be lowered along with price of taking part. If the riders want to know how long it took them to do the ride there are plenty of commercially available electronic devises that do the job.
If you want to know where you 'came overall' get BC’s Race Cover and race in a proper run road race.
What's your problem? Maybe they don't want to get BC's Race Cover and race in a proper run road race. And judging by the growing number of sportives, looks like plenty people are happy to pay the costs. What's with the rant? Something you want to get off your chest?0 -
I'm sure the new governing body will ban drafting immediately, as well as making any use of the word "race" by a MAMIL (the new governing body's term of choice for a sportive participant) punishable by repeating "I must become a Real Cyclist and enter a Real Race" 100 times.0
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bompington wrote:I'm sure the new governing body will ban drafting immediately, as well as making any use of the word "race" by a MAMIL (the new governing body's term of choice for a sportive participant) punishable by repeating "I must become a Real Cyclist and enter a Real Race" 100 times.
I think the problem people have is that in a sportive you have some people 'racing' and others just riding. These two different styles of riding don't get on very well. Less experienced riders 'racing' will be frustrated with more experienced riders just riding.
At the end of the day, we're all riding bikes, just get on with it and don't make a drama out of something that isn't worth worrying about.0 -
Rodrego Hernandez wrote:bompington wrote:I'm sure the new governing body will ban drafting immediately, as well as making any use of the word "race" by a MAMIL (the new governing body's term of choice for a sportive participant) punishable by repeating "I must become a Real Cyclist and enter a Real Race" 100 times.
I think the problem people have is that in a sportive you have some people 'racing' and others just riding. These two different styles of riding don't get on very well. Less experienced riders 'racing' will be frustrated with more experienced riders just riding.
At the end of the day, we're all riding bikes, just get on with it and don't make a drama out of something that isn't worth worrying about.
Well said.I don't mean to brag, I don't mean to boast, but I'm intercontinental when I eat French toast...0
