Hillsborough

fast as fupp wrote:

your link implies there was mayhem- there wasnt!

pray tell me of your experiences of such mayhem?

I was talking about hooliganism in the 70's and 80's if you read my post. I was talking about why the pens were needed at football stadiums across the entire country.

For you to suggest there was no hooliganism in the UK warranting the penning of football supporters is utterly bizarre. Did you even bother to read the article ? Did you never read a bout the weekly riots at football stadiums week in week out ?

Perhaps you might like to read the entire post and not assume that my comments were specifically about Hillsborough. The clue is in the statement "None of this excuses the actions at Hillsborough one bit but it does explain for younger readers what the 70's and 80's were like "

natrix wrote:

fast as fupp wrote:

Harwood didnt 'get away' with the killing- as perverse as the verdict may have been- he was cleared by a jury who heard all the evidence.

Depends what you mean by all the evidence, they weren't informed that he quit the Met on health grounds in 2001 shortly before a planned disciplinary hearing. Incredibly he was then able to join another force, (Surrey) before returning to serve with the Met in 2005.

He allegedly punched, throttled, kneed or threatened other suspects while in uniform in other alleged incidents.

i did say it was on the face of it a perverse verdict

we still have to accept it

the fences at hillsboro had gates for use in emergencies. on 15/04/89 these were padlocked shut and no-one knew where the keys were. fans attempting to escape the crush were pushed back by police. the ground didnt have a safety cerificate and there had been problems with crushing at previous matches. the attitude of the government and the police at the time was that people attending football matches were all sub human scum with no rights. 96 people died because of this attitude.

fast as fupp wrote:

the fences at hillsboro had gates for use in emergencies. on 15/04/89 these were padlocked shut and no-one knew where the keys were. fans attempting to escape the crush were pushed back by police. the ground didnt have a safety cerificate and there had been problems with crushing at previous matches. the attitude of the government and the police at the time was that people attending football matches were all sub human scum with no rights. 96 people died because of this attitude.

Spot on.

fast as fupp wrote:

the attitude of the government and the police at the time was that people attending football matches were all sub human scum with no rights. 96 people died because of this attitude.

No.

The overwhelming evidence from a decade of football rioting (which you claim you never saw or ever appear to have heard of) criminality, damage and destruction resulted in the logical conclusion that football supporters could not be trusted. They had to be penned in because they would riot and cause destruction if they were not. despite your attempts to deny all the facts, this is true.

96 people died on the day due to the actions and inaction of the police.

However if and its a big if, the football supporters of the previous decade had not been the scum to which you refer, then the pens would not have been needed. This does not excuse the actions of SYP.

You seem to be trying to suggest that the pens were not needed and there was no violence at earlier games. That is simply untrue and you know it.

The pens/fencing were erected to keep fighting hooligans apart end of. This was so games could continue to be played.

If they were not needed the clubs wouldn't have erected them, they (clubs) were very reluctant to spend money on the grounds, hence Hillsborough not having a safety certificate, Bradford citys ground becoming a death trap as were most grounds in those days.

The hooligan element in football have a lot to answer for including the attitude that police took towards policing ALL FOOTBALL SUPPORTERS.

I suppose in a perverse way, if it weren't for hooligans we could still be watching football in antiquated old grounds.

You had a choice not to go if you didn't like the way you were treated, I wouldn't pay money to let someone lock me in a cage and looking back it seems absurd. It's an interesting mark of how society has changed thankfully. This thread is inappropriately off topic now however I feel.

NapoleonD wrote:

Well, I'm not closing ranks on anyone...

Good for you Nap, I'm glad to hear to it

fast as fupp wrote:

tiredofwhiners wrote:

fast as fupp wrote:

how many games did you attend during this era of weekly rioting and murder?

Again with the irrelevancies. I couldn't even manage a guess as I lived in Newcastle, Nottingham and Bradford over that period and went to games at all of them, and saw rioting and violence at all locations.

Why do you continue with the deflection of facts - there still is this wonderful box in the corner of the room called a TV and it shows you pictures from places you were not actually present. You can learn a lot from watching it you know, like programmes on how some people are in denial and sem unable to accept the facts. You ight also learn about government commissions into football violence, BBC TV documentary programmes and news programmes.

But no, you seem to believe things only happen if you're there. Muppet.

did the nasty boys scare you, diddums?

i dont believe youve ever been to a football ground in your life.

Clearly Trolling - deflecting the evidence. I've been to plenty and gave it up in the 80's when I came across your sort too often.

I wonder where you're from ........ oooh, what a coincidence.

Paulie W wrote:

Seriously you're both acting like pricks - take it somewhere else.

apologies dude, but its a bit of a sensitive subject, ill shut up now.