Hillsborough

Cleat Eastwood

David Cameron has just made a powerful speech apologising to the bereaved families and those affected by the tragedy.

His summary of the report is truly shocking

*police used the national computer to research those who lost their lives with the intention of impugning the victims.

*People were alive after the 3.15 cut off point.

*police evidence was altered to portray the fans as drunk.

*evidence witheld from lord justice taylor

*lies perpetuated in the press.

The first step towards justice. The fans exonerated. So pleased for the families who have conducted themselves with dignity through out.

Jack Alfred Anderson, 62

Colin Mark Ashcroft, 19, student

James Gary Aspinall, 18

Kester Roger Marcus Ball, 16, student

Gerard Baron Snr, 67

Simon Bell, 17

Barry Sidney Bennett, 26

David John Benson, 22

David William Birtle, 22

Tony Bland, 22

Paul David Brady, 21

Andrew Mark Brookes, 26

Carl Brown, 18

Steven Brown, 25

Henry Thomas Burke, 47

Peter Andrew Burkett , 24

Paul William Carlile, 19

Raymond Thomas Chapman , 50

Gary Christopher Church, 19

Joseph Clark, 29

Paul Clark, 18

Gary Collins, 22

Stephen Paul Copoc, 20

Tracey Elizabeth Cox, 23

James Philip Delaney, 19

Christopher Barry Devonside, 18

Christopher Edwards, 29

Vincent Michael Fitzsimmons, 34

Steve Fox, 21

Jon-Paul Gilhooley, 10

Barry Glover, 27

Ian Thomas Glover, 20

Derrick George Godwin, 24

Roy Harry Hamilton, 34

Philip Hammond, 14

Eric Hankin, 33

Gary Harrison, 27

Stephen Francis Harrison, 31

Peter Andrew Harrison, 15

David Hawley, 39

James Robert Hennessy, 29

Paul Anthony Hewitson, 26

Carl Hewitt, 17

Nick Hewitt, 16

Sarah Louise Hicks, 19

Victoria Jane Hicks, 15

Gordon Rodney Horn, 20

Arthur Horrocks, 41

Thomas Howard, 39

Tommy Anthony Howard, 14

Eric George Hughes, 42

Alan Johnston, 29

Christine Anne Jones, 27

Gary Philip Jones, 18

Richard Jones, 25

Nicholas Peter Joynes, 27

Anthony Peter Kelly, 29

Michael Kelly, 38

Carl David Lewis, 18

David William Mather, 19

Brian Christopher Matthews, 38

Francis Joseph McAllister, 27

John McBrien, 18

Marian Hazel McCabe, 21

Joe McCarthy, 21

Peter McDonnell, 21

Alan McGlone, 28

Keith McGrath, 17

Paul Brian Murray, 14

Lee Nicol, 14

Stephen Francis O'Neill, 17

Jonathon Owens, 18

William Roy Pemberton, 23

Carl Rimmer, 21

Dave Rimmer, 38

Graham John Roberts, 24

Steven Joseph Robinson, 17

Henry Charles Rogers, 17

Andrew Sefton, 23

Inger Shah, 38

Paula Ann Smith, 26

Adam Edward Spearritt, 14

Philip John Steele, 15

David Leonard Thomas, 23

Pat Thompson, 35

Peter Reuben Thompson, 30

Stuart Thompson, 17

Peter Francis Tootle, 21

Christopher James Traynor, 26

Martin Kevin Traynor, 16

Kevin Tyrrell, 15

Colin Wafer, 19

Ian David Whelan, 19

Martin Kenneth Wild, 29

Kevin Daniel Williams, 15

Graham John Wright, 17

fast as fupp

hear! hear!

JFT96

tim_wand

Criminal Charges should be brought against any one who has been proven to be complicit in these acts.

South Yorkshire Police and Ambulance services must both offer full apologies.

Kelvin Macenzie to issue a full unreserved apology, personally and the Scum to do like wise.

Cannot believe it has taken 23 years for the truth to start to emerge, the grief these families have had to endure and the moronic and despicable goading a great club like Liverpool F.C and the people of the City of Liverpool have had to suffer as a result.

One good example why Boris Johnson should not be an elected official anywhere.

baldwin471

We Liverpool fans always knew the truth. Anyone who blamed the fans should be very ashamed.

TheStone

Wow, it's gone a lot further than expected. I hope they don't stop there, people should be arrested for what's gone on.

I'm a bit surprised the fans have been completely exonerated? How can there be such overcrowding if there weren't many without tickets. Did they sell too many tickets? The other pens were not as full, but far from empty.

Frank the tank

Any parties and individuals that are shown to have been involved in fabricating evidence and covering up facts should be brought to justice and justice be served. I believe the whole thing could/should have been police/marshalled considerably better. However, I cannot see how all the fans can be exonerated of any fault.

drumandguitar

TheStone wrote:

I'm a bit surprised the fans have been completely exonerated? How can there be such overcrowding if there weren't many without tickets. Did they sell too many tickets?

Sigh. Did you read any of the report? General mis-management of large groups of fans approaching/entering the stadium. Fans funnelled into a narrow tunnel emptying into 2 small enclosed pens directly behind the goal. No lessons learnt from previous years when similar incidents occurred. Fans urinating on and robbing the dead?! Have you ever seen fans trying to carry dying children/women on ripped up hoardings? Tried to climb over a 10m steel fence to escape death? Been relieved when the barrier a few metres from you gave way reducing the pressure around you allowing you to breath, not realising at the time that people had just gone down and were being suffocated under the pileup of people?

I was in that pen that day. JFT96. YNWA

Paulie W

Frank the tank wrote:

However, I cannot see how all the fans can be exonerated of any fault.

Read the report then because that's what it does.

Frank the tank

Paulie W wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

However, I cannot see how all the fans can be exonerated of any fault.

Read the report then because that's what it does.

That may well be the case, I'm just saying I can't see how all the fans can be totally blameless. I haven't read the report though and I dare say nobody on here has either being as it only came out a few hours ago.

Cleat Eastwood

41 lives could have been saved.

Norman Bettison who became the chief constable of merseyside was implicated in the cover up. Absolutely shameful criminal behaviour.

CiB

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

41 lives could have been saved.

Norman Bettison who became the chief constable of merseyside was implicated in the cover up. Absolutely shameful criminal behaviour.

It's worse that senior police officers are allowed to escape inquiry into their actions by retiring on ill health. That stinks that does.

Frank the tank

CiB wrote:

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

41 lives could have been saved.

Norman Bettison who became the chief constable of merseyside was implicated in the cover up. Absolutely shameful criminal behaviour.

It's worse that senior police officers are allowed to escape inquiry into their actions by retiring on ill health. That stinks that does.

Too true. The industry I work in if an aircraft were to crash and it proved to be a defective part I had passed as good I'd be dragged out of my retirement home and face possible criminal charges.

Daz555

There is no doubt that those killed were entirely innocent.
There is no doubt that the police failed to cope with the crowds.
There is no doubt there was a cover up.
And I'm sorry, but there is no doubt that late and ticketless fans contributed to the evolution of events on that horrible day.

There is of course one ultimate truth here:

From the moment the fences went up in a poorly judged response to the problems caused by the hooligan scum, it was inevitable that eventually there would be a horrible crushing incident. Football hooligans killed every man, woman and child on the Hilsborough terraces - either on that day or in the years leading to it. Shame on every single one of them. Scum.

Cleat Eastwood

CiB wrote:

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

41 lives could have been saved.

Norman Bettison who became the chief constable of merseyside was implicated in the cover up. Absolutely shameful criminal behaviour.

It's worse that senior police officers are allowed to escape inquiry into their actions by retiring on ill health. That stinks that does.

Too true - I found it galling too that milliband tried to get on the bandwagon. Hillsborough happened under Thatcher and there was a lot of ill feeling that somehow she had orchestrated a cover up to protect the south yorks police after their actions at orgreave, and there was a lot of skepticism about how far the establishment would go in answering the calls of the families.

In my opinion Cameron showed a genuine sense to reach for the truth today, not for himself or for party politics but for the families still grieving. I think that was a true glimpse into the man today.

Paulie W

Daz555 wrote:

And I'm sorry, but there is no doubt that late and ticketless fans contributed to the evolution of events on that horrible day.

The fact that you feel the need to make this point today of all days (and elsewhere referred to some of the Liverpool fans as "pissed up twats") shows an incredible lack of class and shows that you have more or less ignored some of the key findings of the report.

Daz555

Paulie W wrote:

Daz555 wrote:

And I'm sorry, but there is no doubt that late and ticketless fans contributed to the evolution of events on that horrible day.

The fact that you feel the need to make this point today of all days (and elsewhere referred to some of the Liverpool fans as "pissed up twats") shows an incredible lack of class and shows that you have more or less ignored some of the key findings of the report.

I deleted the comment seconds after posting it. Not sure what led me to say that to be honest - I was a twat.

I stand by my main point in my post here however - a crushing incident was inevitable eventually given the fences and we all know why every ground in the land had these fences. If not Liverpool fans it would have been some other poor lot.

Cleat Eastwood

Daz555 wrote:

There is no doubt that those killed were entirely innocent.
There is no doubt that the police failed to cope with the crowds.
There is no doubt there was a cover up.
And I'm sorry, but there is no doubt that late and ticketless fans contributed to the evolution of events on that horrible day.

There is of course one ultimate truth here:

From the moment the fences went up in a poorly judged response to the problems caused by the hooligan scum, it was inevitable that eventually there would be a horrible crushing incident. Football hooligans killed every man, woman and child on the Hilsborough terraces - either on that day or in the years leading to it. Shame on every single one of them. Scum.

The amount of ticketless fans was negligible. The late arrivals were because of an accident on the motorway up there.

Just to explain the families aren't bothered about the hows and whys and wherefores - 95 people died at hillsborough that day - one died later in hospital - there was a false story peddled and perpetuated that they were responsible for their own deaths and the deaths of others. The families want that lie lifted and were seeking an explanation, thats all, an explanation, as to why the lies began and who instigated them. Today they got the best answer they have had so far.

Paulie W

The full report is now online: http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/report/

Paulie W

Daz555 wrote:

Paulie W wrote:

Daz555 wrote:

And I'm sorry, but there is no doubt that late and ticketless fans contributed to the evolution of events on that horrible day.

The fact that you feel the need to make this point today of all days (and elsewhere referred to some of the Liverpool fans as "pissed up twats") shows an incredible lack of class and shows that you have more or less ignored some of the key findings of the report.

I deleted the comment seconds after posting it. Not sure what led me to say that to be honest - I was a fool.

Fair enough.

Daz555

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

95 people died at hillsborough that day - one died later in hospital - there was a false story peddled and perpetuated that they were responsible for their own deaths and the deaths of others. The families want that lie lifted and were seeking an explanation, thats all, an explanation, as to why the lies began and who instigated them. Today they got the best answer they have had so far.

I really really hope that some of these liars are brought to justice.

Is it likely we will see any legal action this far down the line - retired police etc?

dylanfernley

Daz555-- you have no right to contribute to this thread, your comments have been insulting , your 'theory' regarding hooligans being responsible for fencing stands no examination, it is patent that you have no experience of football at terrace level, and even less of humanity, shame on you.

drumandguitar

Daz555 wrote:

And I'm sorry, but there is no doubt that late and ticketless fans contributed to the evolution of events on that horrible day.

There is of course one ultimate truth here:

From the moment the fences went up in a poorly judged response to the problems caused by the hooligan scum, it was inevitable that eventually there would be a horrible crushing incident. Football hooligans killed every man, woman and child on the Hilsborough terraces - either on that day or in the years leading to it. Shame on every single one of them. Scum.

F'kin idiot.

Daz555

drumandguitar wrote:

Daz555 wrote:

And I'm sorry, but there is no doubt that late and ticketless fans contributed to the evolution of events on that horrible day.

There is of course one ultimate truth here:

From the moment the fences went up in a poorly judged response to the problems caused by the hooligan scum, it was inevitable that eventually there would be a horrible crushing incident. Football hooligans killed every man, woman and child on the Hilsborough terraces - either on that day or in the years leading to it. Shame on every single one of them. Scum.

F'kin idiot.

I think you are reading my comments as a statement that Liverpool fans are responsible for the Hillsborough tragedy - I am not saying that.

My final statement is more about why we had fences to start with and how it was bound to happen eventually - it just happened to be the poor unfortunates on that day. Could have happened to just about any large club's fans in the land.

Daz555

dylanfernley wrote:

Daz555-- you have no right to contribute to this thread, your comments have been insulting , your 'theory' regarding hooligans being responsible for fencing stands no examination, it is patent that you have no experience of football at terrace level, and even less of humanity, shame on you.

The fences were erected in response to years of hooligan behaviour. The minority of fans who behaved like animals prompted a reaction from the authorities to treat all fans like animals - hence the fences. I also made the statement that the decision to erect those fences was a poor judgement - I should have gone further, it was criminally negligent.

It is clear from today's release that crowd safety at Hillsborough was woefully inadequate in terms of the design of the terraces/fences/gates/tunnels - same for dozens of stadia I'm sure. Also, I'm an old fart - spent many a game on the terraces from the late 70s onwards. I was glad to see the end of the fences, but sorry to see the terraces torn down.

All this predates the Hillsborough tragedy but make no mistake that is where the seeds were sewn. All these "hero hooligan" fans from every club in the land who glory in their 'golden' days of the 70s and 80s should be ashamed of themselves.


There are two things I hope come out of the released information.

1. Closure for some of the families and friends.
2. Prosecutions for the liars who tried to cover up the truth.

cornerblock

I really do hope that the statement today by Mr Cameron is just the start of obtaining justice for all the families of those that tragically died that day. The people who made the decisions and those that neglected their duties should now be named and prosecuted where necessary.

As for that slimeball d*ckhead MacKenzie, I hope the people of Liverpool tell you exactly what you can do with your 'apology'. Typical of the creep, now 23 years too late, blames his sources for the lies that he chose to go ahead and publish, didn't stop to check the story at the time though! Ar*ehole, I f*cking hate him!

And I also hope that today's revelations bring an end to the sick, disgusting and untrue chants that are sometimes heard at football grounds. I hope so, I really do.

RIP the 96 and respect to all the families.

Daz555

Cornerblock wrote:

I really do hope that the statement today by Mr Cameron is just the start of obtaining justice for all the families of those that tragically died that day. The people who made the decisions and those that neglected their duties should now be named and prosecuted where necessary.

+1

Cornerblock wrote:

And I also hope that today's revelations bring an end to the sick, disgusting and untrue chants that are sometimes heard at football grounds. I hope so, I really do.

+1

napoleond

I hope those that fabricated evidence are absolutely squirming and I hope they will be prosecuted.

Frank the tank

dylanfernley wrote:

Daz555-- you have no right to contribute to this thread, your comments have been insulting , your 'theory' regarding hooligans being responsible for fencing stands no examination, it is patent that you have no experience of football at terrace level, and even less of humanity, shame on you.

I seem to recall Ken Bates had wanted electified fences, fcukin' good job he didn't have his way.

Daz555

Frank the tank wrote:

dylanfernley wrote:

Daz555-- you have no right to contribute to this thread, your comments have been insulting , your 'theory' regarding hooligans being responsible for fencing stands no examination, it is patent that you have no experience of football at terrace level, and even less of humanity, shame on you.

I seem to recall Ken Bates had wanted electified fences, fcukin' good job he didn't have his way.

Indicative of how the authorities viewed football fans at the time - as animals to be caged. Shocking.

pinno

Can victims, relatives of victimes now sue:
Kelvin McKenzie for the insulting, humiliating insensative lies damn lies sh1t he instigated to be published on his watch ?
Thatcher who wanted the police to look good 'cos she needed them to fight the unions and ba$tard lefties. There is no doubt she pulled political strings to help cover this up ?
The poilce constabulary for the complicit actions which lead to all those deaths ?
News Corp for allowing K McKuntzie to continue as editor long after the incident ?
The emergency services who obviously sang the same tune of the status quo supported by the treasonous wicked witch who did not beleive there was any such thing as society ?
Time the Scousers got together and lynched the ba$tard heads of those complicit institutions, legally through the lawcourts until they end up either in prison or in exile.

pinno

A start