drafting/tailgating - is it acceptable?

In terms of insurance. Is the person behind always at fault. As they should keep a safe distance should the person in front, brake suddenly. Yes this guy is an idiot for what he did but I don't know where you would stand insurance wise.

Initialised wrote:

Blonde Cyclist wrote:

I don't mind being drafted as long as I trust the rider which generally means I think they have a bit of experience group riding. Reasons being I want to know if I slow or avoid an obstacle they'll be able to read the situation/ my signals. Generalising I think you can normally tell who the less experienced riders are - they tend to overlap wheels, shoot past when you start to slow (even after signalling) and sometimes blow out of their behind trying to stay on your wheel, because well you're a girl, and they must be able to keep up with a girl. For these guys I tend to either try and put a little more power down and leave them or turn round and ask them to give me a little space.

Sometimes it's great to work together with someone especially if you're both tired, but the ettiquette of sharing the work and saying thank you makes a big difference.

Drafting girls is about keeping it up...

FTFY

It is never acceptable to tailgate someone you do not know, If it is a windy day and there is another roadie infront of me I alsways ask if they want to take turns at the front if we are at the same level, In groups there are special hand signals to avoid potholes or cars on the kerb as the person infront is your eyes, if you tailgate or draft someone you dont know you are cycling blind to what is directly infront of you. He was in the wrong as most people would not break at a hill going down and he should of been aware of you behind if he had just overtaken you. Thats my opinion

hang on was he one of the club riders you mentioned??

TGOTB wrote:

I'm with Blonde Cyclist on this. I don't mind someone drafting me if I think they know what they're doing, which means either clubmates, people I recognise, people I've seen giving hand signals, or (generally) people in club kit. I get very annoyed at being drafted by people who may not know what they're doing, mostly because I've had a few incidents. One guy trashed my rear mech and then rode off, a couple of others have hit me without causing major damage, and I've heard quite a few oaths muttered as people lock wheels behind me, or shoot past down improbably narrow gaps. One guy hit me as I stopped at a red light and uttered "I though you were going to go for it". In their eyes I probably bring it upon myself by riding quite fast, having quite effective brakes, and always stopping at red lights and zebra crossings.

For the OP's situation, isn't it illegal to leave the scene of an accident without providing details?

+1 (although I'm not a club member) particularly the last bit.

Someone overtakes me and they're not going a lot faster, it's difficult not to drop in behind them. I'd never ride right on their rear wheel. Bottom line is it's not doing them any harm....and the mobile windbreak means it's just as easy to draft them as not - do I really need to actually consciously slow down to let them get ahead enough that I can carry on at the same level of effort without taking any advantage?

The problem is that if they want to share the lead, the reason they caught you in the first place was because you weren't going as fast as they were when the wind was in your face. So while you're OK keeping up while they're leading, you may struggle to maintain the same pace when you are!

Me, I reckon if you overtake someone, you either need to overtake them properly or assume they're going to be drafting you for the rest of the journey!

As to who was at fault: no question, he was. Nothing excuses that type of dangerous behaviour. But I find that the best thing with drafters is just to swallow any irritation, cycle no faster than I would anyway, and treat them with as much courtesy as you would someone to whom you'd given permission. They're only using your waste energy and it's not as if it costs you anything.

Allez Mark wrote:

bails87 wrote:

Allez Mark wrote:

In terms of insurance. Is the person behind always at fault. As they should keep a safe distance should the person in front, brake suddenly. Yes this guy is an idiot for what he did but I don't know where you would stand insurance wise.

Hmmm, not quite.
If you're just riding/driving along and the car in front brakes, you don't stop and hit it then it's your fault.

If you're riding/driving and someone overtakes, pulls in front and slams the brakes on then it's probably their fault. They've positioned themselves too close to you, not the other way round.

Is that the way the law sees it?

It's common law ("fault" in an accident is only really relevant for civil liability purposes) so there's no statute to refer to. A decision in a particular case would be down to precedent and the decision of the judge on the balance of probabilities.

In general, though, yes. There are a variety of circumstances where hitting someone in the rear is not automatically your fault: if someone has cut you up, pulled from a side road/parked, being shunted from behind into the vehicle in front, etc. The trouble is frequently presenting a case convincingly enough that the judge rules that way. There are a lot of judges that will treat a simpler set of circumstances ("He hit me from behind") as intrinsically more plausible than more complicated circumstances ("he cut me up as we left a roundabout and left me nowhere to go").

cjcp wrote:

Why would you draft someone on the commute?

Strava has a lot to answer for. Think Renshaw and Cav.

Again, I'm with Blonde Cyclist - I don't mind drafting if I'm out on a ride and the one behind knows what they are doing, but I'm not so keen on it on my 13 mile commute home, it's always uphill, and it's always a bloke who doesn't know what he's doing, who'll let me do the work and then buggers off like a rat up a drainpipe. I've never ever had a tow home from someone.

msmancunia wrote:

...I've never ever had a tow home from someone.

The reason for this has already been explained.

rhext wrote:

cjcp wrote:

...He's asking for it!

This reminds me of the short skirt, low cut top defence.

Allez Mark wrote:

Is that the way the law sees it?

Generally speaking, the person behind is presumed to be at fault until evidence to the contrary can be presented. If you don't have video footage or eyewitness report of an incident like this, it'll be hard to convince an insurer that you weren't just riding too close and not paying attention.

papajimbo wrote:

To rhext, I've just done a 50 hour week and I'm knackered too and I don't want to be thinking about what some stranger right up my backside is doing. I'm enjoying a quiet ride home on my own, a bit of head space - I'm sure you can appreciate that after your week. I can either slow down and hang back or keep going so I keep going and before I know it I've got someone on my wheel. It's unsettling if you're driving and it's unsettling if you're riding too! If he wanted to cycle at my speed why wasn't he doing so in the first place? I can't match the guys that average 20mph and pass me so I don't hitch a lift, it's just bloody rude. A guy last night came up behind me - so he's going faster than me - and asked if I minded if he followed, I said 'no problem', within 10 minutes we were both going slower and chatted for the last 5 miles of the commute. Very different to the prat the other night.

he wasn't cycling at your pace to start with because without someone to draft he couldn't. Which also explains why he seems to slow down if he does actually pass you.

from my experience, if someone blasts past me I'm not going to bother. The ones I end up drafting are the ones who overtake and then hang around....I'd actually have to make a decision to slow down if I wanted to avoid slipstreaming them.

but I also know that if I pass someone on my commute, and I don't pass them convincingly, I'm going to end up with a tail until our routes diverge. It's more due to the laws of aerodynamics than bad manners. I can get all upset about it, or I can just accept it as 'one of those things' and be polite.

Personally I find the latter approach means I continue to enjoy my ride home, don't get into a confrontation and, pehaps in extreme circumstances, don't end up with road rash.....