Purpose built indoor trainers with power...
IanTrcp
Posts: 761
I've got a Cycleops PT300 which I've used successfully for a few years. For a number of reasons I'm looking to replace/upgrade. I don't like any of the the turbo based models where you use a real bike. Always problems with friction (ahem) / calibration in my experience, plus trainer tyres a PITA to fit etc.
I can find the following options:
Latest Cycleops: http://www.cycleops.com/en/products/ind ... egory_id=7
Wattbike: http://wattbike.com/uk/shop/product/wattbike_trainer
LeMond G-Force UT: http://www.lemondfitness.com/product_de ... g-force-ut
I'd be really interested to hear comments from anyone who's used any of these. Also to know if there are any similar options that I've missed.
Thanks in advance!
I can find the following options:
Latest Cycleops: http://www.cycleops.com/en/products/ind ... egory_id=7
Wattbike: http://wattbike.com/uk/shop/product/wattbike_trainer
LeMond G-Force UT: http://www.lemondfitness.com/product_de ... g-force-ut
I'd be really interested to hear comments from anyone who's used any of these. Also to know if there are any similar options that I've missed.
Thanks in advance!
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Comments
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What about a Computrainer / Velotron?More problems but still living....0
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Ian - apologies for hijacking your thread - but I've been looking at getting the Pt300 or 400 as a dedicated indoor unit for measuring power.
How easily does the PT300 allow you to match your outdoor FTP inside? It's the large flywheel on these units that appeals to me because I've got industrial fans cooling me on my turbo and I still can't get indoor FTP anywhere near outdoor power levels.
On a separate note, why don't you like this unit anymore?
Thanks.0 -
sergen wrote:Ian - apologies for hijacking your thread - but I've been looking at getting the Pt300 or 400 as a dedicated indoor unit for measuring power.
How easily does the PT300 allow you to match your outdoor FTP inside? It's the large flywheel on these units that appeals to me because I've got industrial fans cooling me on my turbo and I still can't get indoor FTP anywhere near outdoor power levels.
On a separate note, why don't you like this unit anymore?
Thanks.
Data from the PT300 is fine. I get reasonably close figures indoors and outdoors. Always lower indoors, perhaps -10w but that seems good enough in practice so I stopped being bothered by it a while ago.
Put the fans behind you. Cycling's a lot easier with a tail wind!0 -
Ian - I am in same boat - potential new purchase, generous budget
Looked at Wattbike and Computrainer at the triathlon show. The latter is old technology, no R&D for so long, to my mind it is yesterdays kit and does not deserve to succeed. If you want to master computer setup from around 1990 you can get the advantage of recreating any ride you have done in real life, which does not appear to be a feature you can get elsewhere, but beyond that it does not match the Wattbike outputs.
Wattbike criticisms seem to be fixed, unnatural Q factor (too wide), fixed (short) cranks (170mm), comments re poor bars (now fixed I think) + general comments that you can buy a training bike, powertap wheelset, turbo and still have plenty of change from a Wattbike. Also various observations on benefits of gaming style videos from Tacx etc.
Personally I am still undecided what a man with an unlimited budget would do, but from a grinding out training interval perspective I suspect the wattbike is the right answer, if you have a garage/gym to set it up with fan, linked PC etc.
It would be great if a serious trainer with relevant experience appeared to give an informed opinion on this subject!
RJGR0 -
I’ve got a Wattbike Pro which I bought after looking at all of the other options.
The Q factor is only an issue if you make it an issue and listen to everybody who complains about the Q factor when very few of them have actually spent any time training on a Wattbike! I swap from road bike to track bike to Wattbike, all with different Q factors and don’t notice the difference.
The old style bars weren’t that bad – main issue was the diameter and that they just didn’t feel like any sort of road bike bars. The new style bars are a lot better - I upgraded to the new ones but they’re still not 100%. When my warranty expires, I will swap to one on the Australian produced conversion solutions which allow you to fit bars of your choice unless I can persuade someone to make me something locally form me.
The lack of options on crank length is a minor issue for me. I ride 170s on the road but would prefer 165s for the Wattbike because that’s what I use on my track bikes and I want my Wattbike time to relate to my track racing. Lots of folks who think they need 175s probably don’t anyway… Again, if you’re willing to throw money at it, there are custom length replacements available from Australia that also fix the Q factor issue.
The reason for the medium length cranks, the very chunky bars and wide Health and Safety style Q factor are because this is a piece of kit which is designed to sit in a commercial gym environment so has to be designed to accommodate all sizes, so you can’t trap fingers behind cranks, so it will take 150kg of weigh, etc, etc.
The two great things about the Wattbike are the ride feel and the available data.
There will probably be someone along in a minute that will chime in and say “you don’t need measurement and a view of independent leg power”.
Well, I’ll tell you about someone who does… I do!
I’m recovering and rehabbing from a shattered femur and trying to get back to top racing form so the Wattbike shows me exactly where my recovering leg is at. It’s powerful data. And the Wattbike is a great training tool. I’ve spent most of this winter training on it.I’m a sprinter – I warmed up yesterday.0 -
lolEddy S wrote:There will probably be someone along in a minute that will chime in and say “you don’t need measurement and a view of independent leg power”.
Well, I’ll tell you about someone who does… I do!
I’m recovering and rehabbing from a shattered femur and trying to get back to top racing form so the Wattbike shows me exactly where my recovering leg is at. It’s powerful data. And the Wattbike is a great training tool. I’ve spent most of this winter training on it.
Well I had a lower leg amputation and consider having independent leg power data of no consequence or value in my rehab and performance improvement. It's a red herring (like the torque graphs).0 -
What output from a Wattbike (of any value) do you get that you can't from a Computrainer?rjgr wrote:Looked at Wattbike and Computrainer at the triathlon show. The latter is old technology, no R&D for so long, to my mind it is yesterdays kit and does not deserve to succeed. If you want to master computer setup from around 1990 you can get the advantage of recreating any ride you have done in real life, which does not appear to be a feature you can get elsewhere, but beyond that it does not match the Wattbike outputs.
I agree the CT software needs an update, but that's mostly about its visual appeal, not its functionality. It is rock solid hardware and as a training device it is superior to all bar the (very expensive) Velotron. Matched with ErgVideo software and it's unbeatable.0 -
Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:
What output from a Wattbike (of any value) do you get that you can't from a Computrainer?
I agree the CT software needs an update, but that's mostly about its visual appeal, not its functionality. It is rock solid hardware and as a training device it is superior to all bar the (very expensive) Velotron. Matched with ErgVideo software and it's unbeatable.
My though is that the jump on and go simplicity of the Wattbike is a big plus. A key element of this is factory calibrated power measurement. There seems considerable disagreement on blogs/reviews on the calibration of the Computrainer re warm up requirements, adjustment of pressure/tension between roller and rear wheel etc.
i.e. the output from the Wattbike is reliable and consistent power - is that matched by the Computrainer?
The Computrainer software and its screen output I saw were truly 1990's, add a serial port connection (I can't think of a single piece of kit anywhere still using that PC interface - certainly nothing being sold new today) and I found it a serious flaw. A sign of no technological development and little market savvy, which is not a company I am naturally inclined to spend serious money with. However, I didn't see Erg Video running as an overlay.
I am open-minded and grateful for different opinions. If you go the Computrainer route what kit do you need for the optimal setup?
RJGR0 -
Of course, there are pros and cons of dedicated ergo bike versus a trainer + bike.rjgr wrote:My though is that the jump on and go simplicity of the Wattbike is a big plus.
Trainer + bike is certainly more portable and can be stored more easily if that's required (e.g. if you don't expect to use it much through summer months). What suits each person's needs is different.
I have used both options (I had a dedicated ergo bike of my own with an SRM fitted). It was great to ride.
One big advantage of trainer is that you are riding your own bike and in the set up you will actually use. You may or may not be able to adequately replicate that on an ergo bike. depends on how well it can be adjusted. Mine was pretty nifty like that:
Yes.rjgr wrote:A key element of this is factory calibrated power measurement. There seems considerable disagreement on blogs/reviews on the calibration of the Computrainer re warm up requirements, adjustment of pressure/tension between roller and rear wheel etc.
i.e. the output from the Wattbike is reliable and consistent power - is that matched by the Computrainer?
Not sure what disagreement there is on CT's calibration process. All one does with a CT is perform the standard roll down calibration after about 10-min of warm up (you can do it at the start as well). It takes a few seconds to do. The whole point of the CT's roll down calibration is that it accounts for the variability in tyre pressure, type and the press on force of the roller.
The wattbike is not as perfect in calibration as you might have been led to believe (but it is very good - as is the CT and Velotron). Testing by Sth Australian Institute of Sport:
My experience of CT versus my calibrated SRM:
The CT interfaces with a PC using a standard USB connector. I didn't realise the USB port was so outdated as a means to connect to a computer? Every computer at my local computer shop has USB ports.rjgr wrote:The Computrainer software and its screen output I saw were truly 1990's, add a serial port connection (I can't think of a single piece of kit anywhere still using that PC interface - certainly nothing being sold new today) and I found it a serious flaw.
The current software i agree is aged looking. They do have new software coming. ErgVideo is fantastic (and the guy who designed that is helping CT with their new software).rjgr wrote:A sign of no technological development and little market savvy, which is not a company I am naturally inclined to spend serious money with. However, I didn't see Erg Video running as an overlay.
I am open-minded and grateful for different opinions. If you go the Computrainer route what kit do you need for the optimal setup?
RJGR
I'm not going to be CT's or Wattbike's salesmen, both products discussed here are very good. With a CT you can use it stand alone using the handlebar controller, or interfaced with computer - in that case you'll need a PC and screen set up. Other than that I'd recommend a suite of ErgVideos.
No matter what trainer you use, budget for an industrial strength fan for cooling.
I think you might under estimate the benefit of having a programmable load controller. With ErgVideos, I found I was readily able to do 2 - 2.5hr sessions back to back to back, whereas on my ergobike, I was getting well over it after 90-minutes.0
