MHR and leg fitness/strength
cyco2
Posts: 593
As the legs get fitter and/or stronger and they put more demands on the heart does this elevate the MHR ?
So, is it possible that after a period of HIT a new MHR test is required ?
Its just that if your legs are weak how can they put demands on the heart to achieve the absolute theoretical MHR ?
So, is it possible that after a period of HIT a new MHR test is required ?
Its just that if your legs are weak how can they put demands on the heart to achieve the absolute theoretical MHR ?
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If you want to be a strong rider you have to do strong things.
However if you train like a cart horse you'll race like one.
If you want to be a strong rider you have to do strong things.
However if you train like a cart horse you'll race like one.
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From experience, last time I did a max tests, the physiologist determined that it was my legs that gave up before my heart and lungs (only reached 194HR, 455w peak, 71m/kg/ml VO2, early twenties). Subsequently was told to perform some serious interval sessions for about 3 months (1min on 1min off). When retested managed to squeeze out 1 extra beat for the same power (but I'd lost 9kg at that point). So from my own experience, yes."A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"
PTP Runner Up 20150 -
ShockedSoShocked wrote:From experience, last time I did a max tests, the physiologist determined that it was my legs that gave up before my heart and lungs (only reached 194HR, 455w peak, 71m/kg/ml VO2, early twenties). Subsequently was told to perform some serious interval sessions for about 3 months (1min on 1min off). When retested managed to squeeze out 1 extra beat for the same power (but I'd lost 9kg at that point). So from my own experience, yes.
errm so your training gave you no extra power but 1 extra bpm?
How did you isolate the your legs from the heart and lungs in order to achieve this?
And how high was your VO2max in the second test :shock:0 -
I must admit that getting a good accurate MHR can be difficult. The reason I put this OP was because of my experience.
I know my first attempt (155) was a rough guide then hitting a small hill during strength training session it went to 159. Since then after several strength training sessions I have reached 163 bpm. It does prompt the question...does having stronger legs mean that I can make my heart beat faster ?
I think that if you are pretty fit and strong then there would be little to gain by doing a another MHR test. But because I have a little way to go then after further training a new MHR test would be appropriate. What do you think?...................................................................................................
If you want to be a strong rider you have to do strong things.
However if you train like a cart horse you'll race like one.0 -
It does prompt the question...does having stronger legs mean that I can make my heart beat faster ?
No.More problems but still living....0 -
amaferanga wrote:It does prompt the question...does having stronger legs mean that I can make my heart beat faster ?
No.
Okay, but if my legs are calling for more blood does the heart have to supply it by beating faster ? I guess up to a point....................................................................................................
If you want to be a strong rider you have to do strong things.
However if you train like a cart horse you'll race like one.0 -
Tom Dean wrote:ShockedSoShocked wrote:From experience, last time I did a max tests, the physiologist determined that it was my legs that gave up before my heart and lungs (only reached 194HR, 455w peak, 71m/kg/ml VO2, early twenties). Subsequently was told to perform some serious interval sessions for about 3 months (1min on 1min off). When retested managed to squeeze out 1 extra beat for the same power (but I'd lost 9kg at that point). So from my own experience, yes.
errm so your training gave you no extra power but 1 extra bpm?
How did you isolate the your legs from the heart and lungs in order to achieve this?
And how high was your VO2max in the second test :shock:
My power was the same, my weight was down considerably though! And i never got the data from the second test unfortunately as the lad who was coaching went back to Ireland (Christmas hols) and got poached by the Irish Olympic people whilst there and never returned, so my training and testing subsequently stopped (and I decided to become fat and slow instead).
The 1min on/1min off intervals were supposed to be maximal essentially, so hitting big numbers in terms of power and VO2 % (if I remember correctly). A session of them and I'd be holding on to the walls trying to make it in from the garage."A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"
PTP Runner Up 20150 -
cyco2 wrote:amaferanga wrote:It does prompt the question...does having stronger legs mean that I can make my heart beat faster ?
No.
Okay, but if my legs are calling for more blood does the heart have to supply it by beating faster ? I guess up to a point.
no.constantly reavalueating the situation and altering the perceived parameters accordingly0 -
sub55 wrote:cyco2 wrote:amaferanga wrote:It does prompt the question...does having stronger legs mean that I can make my heart beat faster ?
No.
Okay, but if my legs are calling for more blood does the heart have to supply it by beating faster ? I guess up to a point.
no.
Okay, so what does make the heart beat faster during exercise ?...................................................................................................
If you want to be a strong rider you have to do strong things.
However if you train like a cart horse you'll race like one.0 -
cyco2 wrote:As the legs get fitter and/or stronger and they put more demands on the heart does this elevate the MHR ?
So, is it possible that after a period of HIT a new MHR test is required ?
Its just that if your legs are weak how can they put demands on the heart to achieve the absolute theoretical MHR ?
It's likely that if you reached your true max in the first test that in subsequent tests as you get fitter your maximal heart rate *declines*. usually, in the range of ~5 - 10 b/min.Coach to Michael Freiberg - Track World Champion (Omnium) 2011
Coach to James Hayden - Transcontinental Race winner 2017, and 2018
Coach to Jeff Jones - 2011 BBAR winner and 12-hour record
Check out our new website https://www.cyclecoach.com0 -
Cardiac output is a function of both heart rate (the maximal rate of which does not tend to increase with training) and stroke volume (amount of blood pumped per beat). It is the latter that tends to increase somewhat with training.cyco2 wrote:amaferanga wrote:It does prompt the question...does having stronger legs mean that I can make my heart beat faster ?
No.
Okay, but if my legs are calling for more blood does the heart have to supply it by beating faster ? I guess up to a point.
As Ric mentioned, it actually pretty common to be able to elicit a higher max HR when relatively unfit.0 -
I think the question is valid and the answer is probably "it depends"
If your legs are insufficiently strong to put high demands on your heart then maybe you'll never see your max heart rate during cycling until you build muscle mass. What results do you get when you run? If you get a higher max HR when running or doing some other activity then it would, I think, point to your legs being unable to fully stress your heart while cycling. However, the act of strengthening your legs will also impact your leg muscle efficiency and your heart stroke volume so it's not as simple as linking a level of power output to a MHR.0 -
Ai_1 wrote:I think the question is valid and the answer is probably "it depends"
If your legs are insufficiently strong to put high demands on your heart then maybe you'll never see your max heart rate during cycling until you build muscle mass. What results do you get when you run? If you get a higher max HR when running or doing some other activity then it would, I think, point to your legs being unable to fully stress your heart while cycling. However, the act of strengthening your legs will also impact your leg muscle efficiency and your heart stroke volume so it's not as simple as linking a level of power output to a MHR.
Maximum HR is exercise modality dependent. That is it will differ for different sports. In people who e.g. cycle for fitness/fun (perhaps the equivalent of going to the gym) then it's likely that HRmax will be higher running compared to cycling. However in trained cyclists HRmax will be ~100 - 105 % of running HRmax.
Being a fit cyclist has nothing to do with "strengthening your legs". it's likely that for endurance cyclists (as opposed to track sprint cyclists) that as you get fitter your legs become physically weaker as contractile proteins are replaced by aerobic machinery
ricCoach to Michael Freiberg - Track World Champion (Omnium) 2011
Coach to James Hayden - Transcontinental Race winner 2017, and 2018
Coach to Jeff Jones - 2011 BBAR winner and 12-hour record
Check out our new website https://www.cyclecoach.com0 -
I read in some biochemistry book that that endurance athletes' muscles don't get stronger through training. Maximum contractile strength stays the same but the aerobic enzyme and mitochondrial content of the muscles increasesCAPTAIN BUCKFAST'S CYCLING TIPS - GUARANTEED TO WORK! 1 OUT OF 10 RACING CYCLISTS AGREE!0
