Training - can't get my HR up??

Cornish-J
Cornish-J Posts: 978
edited February 2011 in Training, fitness and health
Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this,

I'm doing my training at home on the turbo - 4x 5min sets at 90%mhr. The last couple times i've tried this my hr only JUST hits 90% and by that time i'm absolutely shattered and my legs have got nothing left to give in the 5min set so needless to say i fail instantly...

Starting to annoy me because i've been feeling quite good lately, doing a lot of endurance zone3 training inbetween HIIT - is it due to lack of rest or something perhaps??

Cheers
J

Comments

  • twotyred
    twotyred Posts: 822
    Heart rate is a lagging indicator and as such nearly useless for short intervals like the ones you are doing. By trying to get your HR up to 90% as quickly as possible at the start of the interval you are cooking yourself. Try starting the interval at a lower intensity and aim to finish the interval at 90%. You could also ditch the HRM and work on perceived effort or put a cycle computer on your back wheel and use speed as a crude approximation of power.

    You could also be over training and too fatigued to put the effort in to get your HR up to the level you are looking for.

    Short intervals are where power meters become very useful.
  • MartinCSI
    MartinCSI Posts: 3
    A Silly question but are you sure you have your MHR and zones setup right?

    I do a similar interval set on the turbo (4x6mins on 6mins off) and reach 90% quick enough, but by what you're describing you seem to be hitting nearer 100%?
  • Cornish-J
    Cornish-J Posts: 978
    Well i'm taking my max HR as the highest i've ever seen on my garmin (which was outside running if that makes any difference?)

    188

    highest ive ever seen cycling outside is 182 and turbo highest is 179.

    which one should i use as my maximum?
  • MartinCSI
    MartinCSI Posts: 3
    I'd use 182 for now. Use the absolute highest you've hit on the bike. If you can, go out one day soon and warm up, then go flat out and try for your max (preferably up a gradient to get that extra few beats). That's the reading you want to base your zones on.

    it sounds like at the moment you're trying to hit a false 90% and killing yourself!
  • Cornish-J
    Cornish-J Posts: 978
    well the 182 was hit on the cornish hills last summer so that figure is certainly not a 'light hearted' effort - that was max effort!

    i will re-adjust my zones using that figure and try again :)

    thanks for the help
  • twotyred
    twotyred Posts: 822
    OK Cornish don't take my word for it. Read what Joe Friel has to say.

    http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2011/02/again-the-pacing-thing-heart-rate-monitors.html
  • MartinCSI
    MartinCSI Posts: 3
    well the 182 was hit on the cornish hills last summer so that figure is certainly not a 'light hearted' effort - that was max effort!

    182 it is then, adjust your 90% target accordingly and give it another go. Good luck with it!
  • mentalalex
    mentalalex Posts: 266
    Cornish-J wrote:
    Well i'm taking my max HR as the highest i've ever seen on my garmin (which was outside running if that makes any difference?)

    188

    highest ive ever seen cycling outside is 182 and turbo highest is 179.

    which one should i use as my maximum?

    you will have a different max HR between cycling and running.

    best way to work our your HR is a ramp test,

    simple way:
    warm up for 15 mins,
    then after that, over the course of 20mins, steadily progress you effort, so by roughly at the end of 20 mins or until you can't give any more, sprint like hell, give everything,

    this will give a fairly good idea of your max HR.

    complicated way:
    Go to a lab and get it done :) thell do power (watts) and vo2 max and what not.


    if you are struggling to hit 90%, you could be tired, as theses are high intensity efforts,
    make sure you get good sleep between efforts, aim between 8-9 1/2 hours, anything less will have a direct impact upon the cardio vascular system, make sure you drink lots,etc

    if your doing 6 minutes efforts it should roughly take around 1 minute to get it to your target zone, (roughly) so the first minute is to be done by feel unless you have the aid of a power meter.
    I do science, sometimes.
  • Cornish-J
    Cornish-J Posts: 978
    thanks for that Alex, very helpful, i'm starting to realise why powertaps are the way to train!

    I will have a good nights sleep and a rest today and have another crack at it tomorrow with the readjusted zones.

    thanks again all!
  • amaferanga
    amaferanga Posts: 6,789
    When I do 5 minute efforts on the turbo at the appropriate wattage my HR doesn't reach 90% HRmax by the end of the first interval.

    I think you need to use something other than HR to pace your efforts. Speed or RPE should be better than HR. Using HR I bet you're putting in much more effort near the start to get your HR up and then you're hanging on to the end of the interval. Hence why it feels so hard.
    More problems but still living....
  • niblue
    niblue Posts: 1,387
    I find my HR doesn't go as high on the turbo as it does when I'm actually out on the bike. It's rare that I see more than 165 or so on the Turbo - even when Sufferfesting - although I will usually see 170+ when out on the road or mountain bike.

    I think that's for a couple of reasons
    1) My iMagic can't simulate more than about a 5% slope, so I don't tend to run out of low gears on the turbo
    2) I think the additional heat build up indoors might be a factor - I keep meaning to move a fan into the garage but haven't got around to it yet
  • Gav888
    Gav888 Posts: 946
    niblue wrote:
    I find my HR doesn't go as high on the turbo as it does when I'm actually out on the bike. It's rare that I see more than 165 or so on the Turbo - even when Sufferfesting - although I will usually see 170+ when out on the road or mountain bike.

    I think that's for a couple of reasons
    1) My iMagic can't simulate more than about a 5% slope, so I don't tend to run out of low gears on the turbo
    2) I think the additional heat build up indoors might be a factor - I keep meaning to move a fan into the garage but haven't got around to it yet

    Same here, my turbo HR is always lower compared to the road, I seem to easily be able to get my HR over 180 on the road, but indoors my legs are cooked before I hit 180....
    Cycling never gets any easier, you just go faster - Greg LeMond
  • KnightOfTheLongTights
    KnightOfTheLongTights Posts: 1,415
    I struggle to get over 180 in my spin classes - 183 is the highest I've gone but I'm using 185 as a MHR estimate at the moment.

    I know that after last night's session - when I spent 34 mins >85%, of which 20m >92% - I feel like I've been beaten up by Guy the Walking Gorilla. (Mind you, I did also run three miles there and the same back, a bit faster than I should have....)
    mentalalex wrote:
    if you are struggling to hit 90%, you could be tired, as theses are high intensity efforts,
    make sure you get good sleep between efforts, aim between 8-9 1/2 hours, anything less will have a direct impact upon the cardio vascular system

    I find after an intense session like that, I rarely get an undisturbed sleep. I had no trouble getting off last night - but four hours later, 3.30am, bing!, wide awake.

    Got back off after 20mins but when my alarm went off I felt more knackered than I had been when I went to bed, like I'd been drugged ...
  • SBezza
    SBezza Posts: 2,173
    amaferanga wrote:
    When I do 5 minute efforts on the turbo at the appropriate wattage my HR doesn't reach 90% HRmax by the end of the first interval.

    I think you need to use something other than HR to pace your efforts. Speed or RPE should be better than HR. Using HR I bet you're putting in much more effort near the start to get your HR up and then you're hanging on to the end of the interval. Hence why it feels so hard.

    +1 to this, it is pointless trying to use HR on such short intervals, anything under 10 mins really needs to be done on power, speed or RPE.

    I would do a 5 min interval fairly hard, and see if you HR ends up around the right level, and then use the speed from this to gauge future efforts, or use a similar RPE for future efforts.

    Obviously power is the best tool to use, but in the absence of this speed or RPE should be OK.
  • Gav888
    Gav888 Posts: 946
    ]
    amaferanga wrote:
    When I do 5 minute efforts on the turbo at the appropriate wattage my HR doesn't reach 90% HRmax by the end of the first interval.

    I think you need to use something other than HR to pace your efforts. Speed or RPE should be better than HR. Using HR I bet you're putting in much more effort near the start to get your HR up and then you're hanging on to the end of the interval. Hence why it feels so hard.


    I use speed on the turbo as I don't have a PM and that works ok, it's not perfect but as long as the tire is pumped to the same psi you can compare workouts but it's not as good as a PM. I also forget HR on intervals less than 10min.
    Cycling never gets any easier, you just go faster - Greg LeMond
  • KnightOfTheLongTights
    KnightOfTheLongTights Posts: 1,415
    we did a ramp-test style spin class last night - a 35-minute climb that gradually got harder - or rather where we increased the effort in stages, finishing with the greatest effort.

    I topped out at 189 - which I shall use as MHR until I know better - but I 'think' I could have gone a couple higher with another 30 seconds' push. Plus had probably gone a bit too hard earlier in the ride to produce a maximal effort at the end ...

    Wish we had power meters - would love to know how much / little I'm pushing out. It would probably be v disappointing for the amount of sweat 'n' tears ...

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