Compulsory Helmets in N.Ireland
Comments
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Dragonwight wrote:Cycle helmets are a waste of time they give a false sense of security to the rider and offer very little if any protection.Alot of them have been shown not to compress at all on impact. Also there has been anecdotal evidence suggesting that the behaviour of motorists subtly changes when cyclists wear helmets because they are perceived as safer, motorists tend to pass them closer and at more speed. Its a personal choice though just glad they arent compulsory here.
There seems to be plenty of US evidence to suggest they do help - especially in kids - and HUGE volumes of anecdotal evidence on here to say the same (including my own experience). From a simple engineering perspective, they make lots of sense (in the same way that your TV comes packed in polystyrene). Oh, and they are tested by the same people that test motorcycle and motorsport helmets - are you arguing that they are equally useless?ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
TailWindHome wrote:CiB wrote:It's over there so doesn't affect me.
You said that about the Potato Famine too. English B*****
Unlike the Irish landowners who probably said 'It's over here but it doesn't affect me anyway'
Faster than a tent.......0 -
meanredspider wrote:There seems to be plenty of US evidence to suggest they do help - especially in kids - and HUGE volumes of anecdotal evidence on here to say the same (including my own experience). From a simple engineering perspective, they make lots of sense (in the same way that your TV comes packed in polystyrene). Oh, and they are tested by the same people that test motorcycle and motorsport helmets - are you arguing that they are equally useless?
Do you have the evidence available?
Anecdotal evidence is just that: personal, not statistically significant
You're comparing two hugely different scenarios
The same people TEST them, so they do the same thing? I think your logic is somewhat skewed there.Chunky Cyclists need your love too! :-)
2009 Specialized Tricross Sport
2011 Trek Madone 4.5
2012 Felt F65X
Proud CX Pervert and quiet roadie. 12 mile commuter0 -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-12330639
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:0 -
antlaff wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-12330639
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Marvellous - the ignorant leading the blind. What a stupid stupid decision.Chunky Cyclists need your love too! :-)
2009 Specialized Tricross Sport
2011 Trek Madone 4.5
2012 Felt F65X
Proud CX Pervert and quiet roadie. 12 mile commuter0 -
WGWarburton wrote:El Gordo wrote:Down the Road wrote:You fall downwards at the same rate at 5mph as you do at 30mph.
I am always stunned at parents riding bare headed when kids are in helmets. Have seen heads badly damaged at 5mph crash speeds
But I can promise you that I am no more likely to fall off my bike riding on a traffic free path at 5mph than I am walking down a footpath. It's not impossible, but it's highly unlikely.
My kids are intelligent enough to understand that they are learning to ride and are therefore more likely to fall off so wearing a helmet is sensible. They also see me set off for work every day wearing a lid but understand that that is because I ride fast on busy roads. Kids, like everyone else, need to learn to assess risks for themselves and make decisions rather than blindly follow blanket rules.
Oh, the irony... Better not leave this post out in the rain, it'll rust for sure :-)
Have you assessed the risk for yourself and concluded that a helmet offers protection against traffic on fast busy roads? I'd be interested to see how you reach that conclusion because the digging I've done suggests there's no hard evidence to support that! On the contrary, in fact, a helmet's design parameters suggest it'll be at it's most useful for low-speed topples of the sort you are more likely to have when pottering on a traffic-free path and watching what your kids are doing instead of focussing on the road ahead!!
Damn! I was trying not to join this thread.. FAIL!
Cheers,
W.
Of course I've assessed the risk for myself. There is no doubt in my mind that a helmet will offer SOME protection whatever speed I'm doing. It won't completely protect me but it'll certainly do more than the thin covering of hair on my head. It's not a good as a motobike helmet or a Volvo full of airbags but it does no harm (unless you suscribe to the whole rotational whatever theory).
I really couldn't give a monkeys whether someone wears one or not. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. What I hate though are blanket rules that stop people thinking for themselves coupled with a poor understanding of physics.0 -
Kieran_Burns wrote:antlaff wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-12330639
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Marvellous - the ignorant leading the blind. What a stupid stupid decision.
just emailed ramsey as to why he brought this bill to the assembly - if i get a reply (unlikely) i will post it.0 -
El Gordo wrote:.... There is no doubt in my mind that a helmet will offer SOME protection whatever speed I'm doing. It won't completely protect me but it'll certainly do more than the thin covering of hair on my head. It's not a good as a motobike helmet or a Volvo full of airbags but it does no harm (unless you suscribe to the whole rotational whatever theory).
It seems to me quite likely that cycle helmets make some injuries worse and/or more likely. I have a lot more faith in the antipodean studies of the effects of compulsion than I do in the small scale studies of hospital admissions.
It seems to me that if helmets protect against less serious injuries and the total number of injuries isn't significantly different then there's likely to be a corresponding increase in the more serious ones.
It doesn't really matter much either way, though. the whole argument about the effectiveness of helmets diverts attention away from the more important issues- Cycling isn't dangerous and it gets safer the more people are doing it.
Arguably, cyclists in NI should be most concerned that the biggest impact of compulsion may be a reduction in the number of cyclists on the road. That seems very likely to increase the risks for those still riding.
Cheers,
W.0 -
Well done Pat Ramsey
Northern Ireland is currently trying to rebuild an economy, an infrastructure and an society devastated by 30 + years of violence.
We have the highest unemployment rate in the UK, inward investment is crumbling and we are wholely dependant on handouts from the state wether in the form of benefits or public sector jobs.
Suicide rates are the highest in the UK, especially in those areas most effected by 'The Troubles' as a generation grow up without any real hope for the future. Just this weekend two children (aged 11 and 13) killed themselves in West Belfast.
You have successfully passed a law which is meaningless and unenforceable.
Todays order of business at Stormont. A law to ban the docking of dogs tails.
Gobshites“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
TailWindHome wrote:Well done Pat Ramsey
Northern Ireland is currently trying to rebuild an economy, an infrastructure and an society devastated by 30 + years of violence.
We have the highest unemployment rate in the UK, inward investment is crumbling and we are wholely dependant on handouts from the state wether in the form of benefits or public sector jobs.
Suicide rates are the highest in the UK, especially in those areas most effected by 'The Troubles' as a generation grow up without any real hope for the future. Just this weekend two children (aged 11 and 13) killed themselves in West Belfast.
You have successfully passed a law which is meaningless and unenforceable.
Todays order of business at Stormont. A law to ban the docking of dogs tails.
Gobshites
You got to remember these are not intelligent people educated to be politicians but low level hoods and unemployable layabouts who knew somebody to become MLA'a!!0 -
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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Kieran_Burns wrote:meanredspider wrote:There seems to be plenty of US evidence to suggest they do help - especially in kids - and HUGE volumes of anecdotal evidence on here to say the same (including my own experience). From a simple engineering perspective, they make lots of sense (in the same way that your TV comes packed in polystyrene). Oh, and they are tested by the same people that test motorcycle and motorsport helmets - are you arguing that they are equally useless?
Do you have the evidence available?
Anecdotal evidence is just that: personal, not statistically significant
You're comparing two hugely different scenarios
The same people TEST them, so they do the same thing? I think your logic is somewhat skewed there.
It would seem there was a statistical study done years ago I dont have the direct link as i dont subscribe to the journal it was published in. However this link refers to it. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/sep/1 ... h.motoring. Which explains the general findings.
I fail to see how motor bike helmets have anything to do with this as they are tested to entirely different standards and are proven to work whereas cycle helmets are of limited use at best and are probably the thin end of the wedge with compulsory insurance and number plates not far behind in our health and safety mad culture. As i said previously a personal choice that should remain so and not compulsory.0 -
antlaff wrote:TailWindHome wrote:Well done Pat Ramsey
Northern Ireland is currently trying to rebuild an economy, an infrastructure and an society devastated by 30 + years of violence.
We have the highest unemployment rate in the UK, inward investment is crumbling and we are wholely dependant on handouts from the state wether in the form of benefits or public sector jobs.
Suicide rates are the highest in the UK, especially in those areas most effected by 'The Troubles' as a generation grow up without any real hope for the future. Just this weekend two children (aged 11 and 13) killed themselves in West Belfast.
You have successfully passed a law which is meaningless and unenforceable.
Todays order of business at Stormont. A law to ban the docking of dogs tails.
Gobshites
You got to remember these are not intelligent people educated to be politicians but low level hoods and unemployable layabouts who knew somebody to become MLA'a!!
Tell us then, how and where does one get educated to be a politician? Do you regard yourself as one of these 'intelligent' people that you talk about?0 -
Kieran_Burns wrote:Do you have the evidence available?
Anecdotal evidence is just that: personal, not statistically significant
You're comparing two hugely different scenarios
The same people TEST them, so they do the same thing? I think your logic is somewhat skewed there.
Just Google it - there's loads of it from the US. I don't see much evidence to the contrary.
Snell Memorial Foundation do the testing http://www.smf.org/. They're constantly updating their testing methods based upon what they find. Clearly the standards for a bicycle helmet is not the same as a motorbike helmet which isn't the same as a race car helmet. The point is that manufacturers don't just buy any old cheap polystyrene, make it into any old shape and sell it to the public (as some folk seem to think happens judging by their comments). They're clearly a respected institution and the MSA/FIA rely on their standards for motorports.
I really don't care if you wear a lid or not though.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
Let me say again what one of my local PCs said to me last year, being a small village we all know the police here.
He attended the scene of a DEAD middle aged woman, with family, she had come off the bike and suffered head injuries. This could have been avoided and she would still be here today had she put on the helmet that was ON HER HANDLEBARS :shock:
But then she was only going round the town, no distance.
"You are a long time dead"
No doubt some here will argue that it was a rare instance, won't happen to them, they have never had an accident, helmets are only for children, I have yet to see a "pro" not wear one. :? Anyway so what if people don't wear them if someone here dies from not wearing one it won't affect me, I dont know anyone here personally, BUT I will wear one, even if there may only be a 1% chance it adds to my safety, I am a single Dad and care about MY family.Peds with ipods, natures little speed humps
Banish unwanted fur - immac a squirrel
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... heads.html0 -
jeremyrundle wrote:Let me say again what one of my local PCs said to me last year, being a small village we all know the police here.
Didn't you quote another policeman recently & what he said was wrong?FCN 9 || FCN 50 -
?, the woman cyclist died in Tavistock, I didn't know about it until I was told by the Police, not wrong that I am aware.Peds with ipods, natures little speed humps
Banish unwanted fur - immac a squirrel
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... heads.html0 -
I assume she'd had an identical accident 5 minutes earlier and survived it, then? Otherwise, how can you possibly know that the helmet would have definitely saved her life?jeremyrundle wrote:Let me say again what one of my local PCs said to me last year, being a small village we all know the police here.
He attended the scene of a DEAD middle aged woman, with family, she had come off the bike and suffered head injuries. This could have been avoided and she would still be here today had she put on the helmet that was ON HER HANDLEBARS :shock:
But then she was only going round the town, no distance.
"You are a long time dead"
They were made compulsory in pro races in around 2003. Before that, they were very often not worn, especially for mountain stages.jeremyrundle wrote:I have yet to see a "pro" not wear one. :?0 -
In a similar unfortunate incident a boy was stabbed near a village school round here not so long ago. I now insist that my kids go to school in stab-proof vests. You can never be too sure after all.jeremyrundle wrote:No doubt some here will argue that it was a rare instance, won't happen to them...
... if there may only be a 1% chance it adds to my safety, I am a single Dad and care about MY family.
I wish people could grasp that the opposite of compulsion isn't a ban. :roll:0 -
CiB wrote:
In a similar unfortunate incident a boy was stabbed near a village school round here not so long ago. I now insist that my kids go to school in stab-proof vests. You can never be too sure after all.jeremyrundle wrote:No doubt some here will argue that it was a rare instance, won't happen to them...
... if there may only be a 1% chance it adds to my safety, I am a single Dad and care about MY family.
I wish people could grasp that the opposite of compulsion isn't a ban. :roll:jeremyrundle wrote:Anyway so what if people don't wear them
I think he grasps that....:roll:ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
And :roll: to you too. If he doesn't care he shouldn't stick 150 words on here then. Pffft.meanredspider wrote:
I think he grasps that....:roll:jeremyrundle wrote:Anyway so what if people don't wear them0 -
jeremyrundle wrote:He attended the scene of a DEAD middle aged woman.
Is DEAD deader than just dead?
Like really, really dead?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0
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hmbadger wrote:antlaff wrote:You got to remember these are not intelligent people educated to be politicians but low level hoods and unemployable layabouts who knew somebody to become MLA'a!!
Tell us then, how and where does one get educated to be a politician? Do you regard yourself as one of these 'intelligent' people that you talk about?
In Northern Ireland the career path for an aspiring politician begins with throwing stones, a bit of petty crime, a spell inside, educated in 'history and politics', when you get out you become a 'community leader', usually with some grant assistance then you get to be an MLA and vote on this mindless crap as you can't be trusted with anything else.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
