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Compulsory Helmets in N.Ireland

antlaffantlaff Posts: 583
edited February 2011 in Commuting chat
Yes I wear one, except when on a casual run with the kids (although they all wearhelmets at all times), but what experiences will these halfwits be recalling to makes this decision!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-12319938
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  • LancsladLancslad Posts: 307
    um shouldnt you wear one if your making the kids wear one even if you are pootling otherwise its a mixed message thing.
    Novice runner & novice cyclist
    Specialized Tricross
    Orbea (Enol I think)
  • bails87bails87 Posts: 12,998
    But the kids are much more likely to fall, and those falls are likely to be the low speed, low impact falls that helmets are designed to protect against.

    It's like telling your young children not to mess about with the cooker, that doesn't mean you have to leave it alone too :wink:
    MTB/CX

    "As I said last time, it won't happen again."
  • Best questions to ask

    Do you put on a seatbelt?

    Have you ever used it?

    Were you thankful for it at the time?
    Racing is life - everything else is just waiting
  • bails87bails87 Posts: 12,998
    Good questions, what have they got to do with helmets though?
    MTB/CX

    "As I said last time, it won't happen again."
  • Best questions to ask

    Do you put on a seatbelt?

    Have you ever used it?

    Were you thankful for it at the time?

    not really seatbelts are a long way from a bike helmet, which is for most part are intended for the low speed spill in the park sort of thing.
  • Fireblade96Fireblade96 Posts: 1,123
    I grew up in Norn Iron, learnt to ride a bicycle there, fell off lots of times, some quite spectacularly.
    Never once wore a helmet.
    Never felt I needed one.

    Pat Ramsey seems to be ignoring the wishes of the people here, the poll on his own website shows that the majority of respondents are against compulsory helmet use:
    http://www.patramsey.ie/index.php?option=com_poll&id=15:cycle-helmet-poll
    Misguided Idealist
  • Seat belt is designed for LESS than 30mph accidents.

    bike helmets are more likely to survive the impact at high speed rather than low which is why they are COMPULSORY in racing
    Racing is life - everything else is just waiting
  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 50,675 Lives Here
    antlaff wrote:
    Yes I wear one, except when on a casual run with the kids (although they all wearhelmets at all times), but what experiences will these halfwits be recalling to makes this decision!!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-12319938

    so you fall and are no longer in a position to look after the kids?
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • antlaffantlaff Posts: 583
    nicklouse wrote:

    so you fall and are no longer in a position to look after the kids?

    what at 5mph on a cycle path or track on flat pedals!! oh please
  • LancsladLancslad Posts: 307
    antlaff wrote:
    nicklouse wrote:

    so you fall and are no longer in a position to look after the kids?

    what at 5mph on a cycle path or track on flat pedals!! oh please


    Doesnt matter how silly it seems, you are still saying you have to wear a helmet but I dont. Thats what your kids will see.

    Anyway how do they hope to enforce helmet wearing if its carried through? It will just turn into one of those useless laws like the one that says you should have lights on your bike at night but seems to be flouted.
    Novice runner & novice cyclist
    Specialized Tricross
    Orbea (Enol I think)
  • gaz545gaz545 Posts: 493
    Seat belt is designed for LESS than 30mph accidents.

    bike helmets are more likely to survive the impact at high speed rather than low which is why they are COMPULSORY in racing

    Sorry whaaaaaaat?

    Please provide a link to a source which states that seatbelts where designed for collisions at less than 30mph? Are you saying the seatbelt has no effect at a crash at 60mph?

    Bicycle helmets without a doubt work best a lower speeds, when reaching speeds of 30mph there rate of protection reduces. And even then, a skull can withstand more energy than a helmet.
  • antlaff wrote:
    nicklouse wrote:

    so you fall and are no longer in a position to look after the kids?

    what at 5mph on a cycle path or track on flat pedals!! oh please

    You fall downwards at the same rate at 5mph as you do at 30mph.

    I am always stunned at parents riding bare headed when kids are in helmets. Have seen heads badly damaged at 5mph crash speeds
    Racing is life - everything else is just waiting
  • LancsladLancslad Posts: 307
    gaz545 wrote:
    Seat belt is designed for LESS than 30mph accidents.

    bike helmets are more likely to survive the impact at high speed rather than low which is why they are COMPULSORY in racing

    Sorry whaaaaaaat?

    Please provide a link to a source which states that seatbelts where designed for collisions at less than 30mph? Are you saying the seatbelt has no effect at a crash at 60mph?

    Bicycle helmets without a doubt work best a lower speeds, when reaching speeds of 30mph there rate of protection reduces. And even then, a skull can withstand more energy than a helmet.

    I agree I was in a head- on last year where I was doing 30pmh and other vehicle was doing more. Ok It broke my collar bone and I got some cuts and bruises but I'm pretty certain It would have been immensly worse without it and Im certain my o.h. would have been through the windscreen.
    Novice runner & novice cyclist
    Specialized Tricross
    Orbea (Enol I think)
  • El GordoEl Gordo Posts: 394
    You fall downwards at the same rate at 5mph as you do at 30mph.

    I am always stunned at parents riding bare headed when kids are in helmets. Have seen heads badly damaged at 5mph crash speeds

    But I can promise you that I am no more likely to fall off my bike riding on a traffic free path at 5mph than I am walking down a footpath. It's not impossible, but it's highly unlikely.

    My kids are intelligent enough to understand that they are learning to ride and are therefore more likely to fall off so wearing a helmet is sensible. They also see me set off for work every day wearing a lid but understand that that is because I ride fast on busy roads. Kids, like everyone else, need to learn to assess risks for themselves and make decisions rather than blindly follow blanket rules.
  • antlaffantlaff Posts: 583
    El Gordo wrote:

    My kids are intelligent enough to understand that they are learning to ride and are therefore more likely to fall off so wearing a helmet is sensible. They also see me set off for work every day wearing a lid but understand that that is because I ride fast on busy roads. Kids, like everyone else, need to learn to assess risks for themselves and make decisions rather than blindly follow blanket rules.

    +1 :D:D

    My kids have seen me leave the house for the last 3 years wearing a helmet on my commute. They know the dangers of not wearing one but understand that the chances of me falling when out with them is minimal. They dont question their use of helmets
  • antlaffantlaff Posts: 583
    I grew up in Norn Iron, learnt to ride a bicycle there, fell off lots of times, some quite spectacularly.
    Never once wore a helmet.
    Never felt I needed one.

    Pat Ramsey seems to be ignoring the wishes of the people here, the poll on his own website shows that the majority of respondents are against compulsory helmet use:
    http://www.patramsey.ie/index.php?option=com_poll&id=15:cycle-helmet-poll

    I see alot more votes have been polled since this posting - how many from NI??
  • wgwarburtonwgwarburton Posts: 1,863
    El Gordo wrote:
    You fall downwards at the same rate at 5mph as you do at 30mph.

    I am always stunned at parents riding bare headed when kids are in helmets. Have seen heads badly damaged at 5mph crash speeds

    But I can promise you that I am no more likely to fall off my bike riding on a traffic free path at 5mph than I am walking down a footpath. It's not impossible, but it's highly unlikely.

    My kids are intelligent enough to understand that they are learning to ride and are therefore more likely to fall off so wearing a helmet is sensible. They also see me set off for work every day wearing a lid but understand that that is because I ride fast on busy roads. Kids, like everyone else, need to learn to assess risks for themselves and make decisions rather than blindly follow blanket rules.

    Oh, the irony... Better not leave this post out in the rain, it'll rust for sure :-)

    Have you assessed the risk for yourself and concluded that a helmet offers protection against traffic on fast busy roads? I'd be interested to see how you reach that conclusion because the digging I've done suggests there's no hard evidence to support that! On the contrary, in fact, a helmet's design parameters suggest it'll be at it's most useful for low-speed topples of the sort you are more likely to have when pottering on a traffic-free path and watching what your kids are doing instead of focussing on the road ahead!!

    Damn! I was trying not to join this thread.. FAIL!

    Cheers,
    W.
  • Brilliant.

    Everyone has totally missed the point here.

    Wear a helmet, don't wear a helmet. Its an individuals choice. The bill plans to fine people for not wearing a helmet.
    yes, you missed that bit, didnt you!
  • CiBCiB Posts: 6,098
    Oooh a helmet debate, and it's not even summer yet. Marvelloous.

    Good. It's over there so doesn't affect me, and it'll provide some closer-to-home stats about the effectiveness or otherwise of compulsion, which - it would be nice to think - would kill the idea off for another few years. The bother is that any stats that arise from this would be open to interpretation in the usal way that stats are, so either side could prove themselves to be right. Shame then.

    I'll carry on without thanks.
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 17,385
    CiB wrote:
    It's over there so doesn't affect me.

    You said that about the Potato Famine too. English B*****
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • Fireblade96Fireblade96 Posts: 1,123
    ... The bill plans to fine people for not wearing a helmet. yes, you missed that bit, didnt you!

    Uh no, I had spotted that part ;-)
    I cycle quite a bit in NI (have a bike at my Dad's for when I visit) and don't fancy being fined for not wearing a helmet, so I feel entitled to add my vote to Pat's little poll.

    Ballymena Says NO (to helmet compulsion) :lol:
    Misguided Idealist
  • CiBCiB Posts: 6,098
    CiB wrote:
    It's over there so doesn't affect me.

    You said that about the Potato Famine too. English B*****
    :) Flattery...

    What's needed is a law that says you probably should wear one, but with no sanctions against anyone not doing so (incl compensation etc). Like the Canadians did IIRC.

    Tell people they ought to wear one, but don't get your pants in a twist if some choose not to - after all it's nobody else's business really is it.
  • davmaggsdavmaggs Posts: 1,008
    It could be a really good rule for the rest of us that aren't subject to it. After all N.I would be able to provide the data for the rest of us to decide, sort of like a large scale trial.

    </sarcasm>
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 17,385
    ^

    Is that not what the Isle of Man is for?
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • Has anyone said "rotational injury" yet?
    Swim. Bike. Run. Yeah. That's what I used to do.

    Bike 1
    Bike 2-A
  • thiscocksthiscocks Posts: 549
    health and saftey gone mad
  • bails87bails87 Posts: 12,998
    CiB wrote:
    I'll carry on without.

    You, sir, are worse than Hitler.



    :wink:
    MTB/CX

    "As I said last time, it won't happen again."
  • meanredspidermeanredspider Posts: 12,337
    I don't really care - always wear a lid.

    30-odd years of industrial engineering and home DIY tells me that accidents happen when you least expect them (almost by definition). I've only fall off once in the last 12 months - I was going almost 0MPH but I had a bruise on my hip the size of my hand for a fortnight.

    What reason do you give the kids for not wearing one? If you're not going fast, you're not getting hot - I can't see why you'd not bother - ruin your hairstyle?

    I'm not in favour of making it compulsory though
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • Cycle helmets are a waste of time they give a false sense of security to the rider and offer very little if any protection.Alot of them have been shown not to compress at all on impact. Also there has been anecdotal evidence suggesting that the behaviour of motorists subtly changes when cyclists wear helmets because they are perceived as safer, motorists tend to pass them closer and at more speed. Its a personal choice though just glad they arent compulsory here.
  • Cycle helmets are a waste of time

    Cool first post, bro'!
    Swim. Bike. Run. Yeah. That's what I used to do.

    Bike 1
    Bike 2-A
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