Duathlon Advice needed

gdcfc1 · April 2009

All,

Am training towards my first duathlon (not a swimmer!). What advice would any of you have about footware? Should I save transition time by wearing the same shoes throughout and switch my pedals to accomodate running shoes? Or am I better off doing the changeover and going clipless for the bike section. It is a short race - 3mile run, 14 mile ride, 3 mile run.

Thanks

:?: :?: :?:

turbo_hamster · April 2009

It is your first duathlon - so, are you expecting to win it?

If not, you probably won't need to worry about the potential loss of time when you change shoes. Practice. Practice the transition lots and lots of times before the event. If it is slow and difficult to change shoes, but you want to carry on with multi-sport events, it might be worth buying triathlon-specific cycling shoes. They are quicker to put on.

You can ride in running shoes if you buy a pair of gizmos called Pyro Platforms, but they cost around £80. Again, are you expecting to win? If so, the cost would probably be worth it. If not...

Monty Dog · April 2009

Get some elastic laces or lace-locks for your running shoes to make it easy to take them off and re-tighten them. Likewise, if you have lace-up bike shoes, but be careful so they don't get caught in the chainring.

DoubleTop · April 2009

I have done a few of these sprint duathlon's and when I started I did the whole event in running shoes and toe clips on a normal pedal. What I have found is that when you done a few then and have times for the whole event:

Step 1 - Run
Step 2 - Transitions Run To Cycle
Step 3 - Cycle
Step 4 - Transitions Cycle To Run
Step 5 - Run

The cycle you could go faster if you wore cycle shoes, but the trade off is that you will add extra time to your 2 transitions. The increased time you add by changing your footwear in step 2 & 4 must be greater than the time you save in step 3 in using cycle shoes. (I hope that makes sense - lol)

Example - change you footwear twice will add say 1 minute, but then you must save more than 1 minute by using the cycle shoes.

The issue you got is that because the cycle is quite short then the time you can potentially save by using shoes is going to give less. This would not be the case if you were a fantastic cyclist and say a 10mile TT expert, because you would change your shoes.

I would say do the event in trainers and have a look at all the parts of the race broken down, only you know your cycling level. Why not do a 10mile TT in cycle shoes and then a few days later do it again using trainers and toe clips. Better still ride the 14 mile course if you can using both types of shoes.

When you done a few events then changing from trainers to cycle shoes and back again will not be a valid question to you.

Good luck, let us know how you get on after the event.

DT

PS. Practice going from cycling to running, don’t matter if you change your shoe or not. Changing from cycling to running for me was a killer, but you just need to have a go before race day. It does get easier, just stick with it.

gdcfc1 · April 2009

All - no, I don't expect to win but I am interested in perspectives on transition vs tools. Then again - you never know!

Thanks for your ideas.

Had not really thought about practicing changing my shoes - I put shoes on every day, right?

Definitely will practice that - and after run/ride too so as to up the pressure.

Will get elastic laces - and will make sure they are velcroed down on cycling!

Also good idea to try the different footware on a personal time trial and then do the maths versus show change time.

Definitely have seen already that changing from bike to run is harder than going from run to bike. Definitely need more transition training.

I'll be back.

Cheers

DaveMoss · April 2009

Unless its a very long bike section,ride in running shoes.
In this case, short bike section and two transitions it's crystal clear, stay in the same shoes.

On a long ride or if needing to win a sprint, cycle shoes have an advantage. On a shorter ride the advantage is minimal, even in a time trial (try it as advised) . You can still use a good pedaling style by lifting the weight off the pedal on the upstroke.

Another factor for a duathlon, the disadvantage of sticking to running shoes is even less if you learn to use a high cadence with less pressure on the pedal, and this is exactly want you want to develop in duathlon so that your legs are not like jelly at the change.

I remember making up loads of time in the second transition of a very cold early season duathlon as others struggled to chance shoes with frozen fingers, I got my best result ever.

And whatever the overall effect, passing people in transition who have taken ages to creep past you in the run or cycle is very satisfying.

gdcfc1 · August 2009

Well, I completed my first duathlon. Here’s a few thoughts – may be helpful for other newbies or may just be ramblings.

Note I am a “master”, “veteran”, call it what you will – over 45 years old!

I set up a 12 week training plan based on a modifying a Triathlon 220 Mag triathlon plan – removing swimming and switching it to what I felt was doable in terms of runs or bike rides instead. I wrote the plan well in advance and started it 13 weeks before the event.

I managed to do 97% of the cycle training.

I only managed about 40% of the running training.

I went with shimano shoes for the ride – and elastic laces to ease the transition for putting on the running shoes again.

Duathlon was ~3miles/14 miles/~3 miles. Field included European duathlon champion down to locals on mountain bikes.

First run went OK – about midway in field. Perhaps tricked a bit by the opening two small laps of about 600m each before heading to rest of the route so started off breathing quite hard.

Cycle was a tough 3 lap course with a steep and long drag in to the wind. Drank quite a bit of water.

Second run was the worst thing I have ever endured in my life! Probably transition was a scramble and could have been calmer – no real panic but immediately struggling to breath. To the comment about passing people in transition, have to say I was not really aware of anyone else at that time! On the run, kept going until out of sight of cheering family then had to stop for first of 3 or 4 stops. Again a bit hilly and by then only goal was to finish. Finished about 75% of way down field overall but definitely had one of the worst drops in time from 1st to 2nd run.

Probably a big mistake – in hindsight – was not having any energy gels or anything to take on board towards end of cycle ahead of 2nd run. Otherwise, hydration was OK (event was midday on a hot day).

Big learning was not matter that I did brick sessions in training, coming off race cycling to run again is another level harder. Have I “got it out of my system” (hopeful question from my wife)? No way! Now I have ideas as to how I can improve in next ones.

Questions on the experience gladly answered.

I did a 20 mins “easy” run the following morning and a fairly hard 50+mins mountain bike ride with local club the day after so guess I have recovered OK.

knedlicky · August 2009

Well done! And also for already considering the next one!
I think your feeling about the second run being the worst thing you’ve ever endured is probably what a lot of first-timer duathletes have also said, if that’s any consolation.

I doubt if an energy gel during the cycling would have helped, sounds more like you just weren’t used to running, or maybe just running after cycling. Especially (as it also sounds) you were towards your limit on the first run and probably forced to push hard by the headwind on the cycling bit.
The first run is best done as if the second run is to follow on immediately, i.e. not too fast. And maybe you didn’t ease off in the last ½ mile of cycling? Also, changing down purposely to a higher cadence during last bit on the bike sometimes helps a little with getting the legs ready for running.

For these relatively-short distances, if you’ve properly prepared (fed) beforehand, I wouldn’t say you needed fuel when cycling for the second run, although I suppose it wouldn’t harm and might be beneficial psychologically. But if you do want to experiment whether a gel has some influence during the run, over this cycling distance you should be eating it about midway along; ‘towards the end of the cycling’, as you write, may be too late for it to 'kick in'. Same with water intake, it should be continuous during the ride. And not excessive (you drank quite a bit?)

For your future duathlon-run training, try doing a route equal to at least the total running distance in the duathlon (so both legs added together), and preferably a route which involves in its last quarter 2-3 stiff climbs, e.g. each of 300 yards length and 7-8% slope. Mastering these sharp climbs towards the end of a run should help a bit with starting the second run in a duathlon.

gdcfc1 · August 2009

Heh knedlicky - thanks for the remarks. As a one time runner through teenage and twenties I know I under trained on that front. You provide interesting ideas about how to assist the running part for future daathlons. My water intake on ride wsa not excessive - small and througout so probably half to two thirds of a standard bike bottle only.

My take is it is down to limitted training and not having enough core strength or running base having had a number of years of limitted sport/running then 12-13 weeks build up to this. Can only get better!

Cheers

andy_wrx · August 2009

I'd agree with knedlicky that you probably don't need the gels - 3 run + 14 bike + 3 run is an effort between a 10K and a Half and I wouldn't use gels for either of them.
Drinking's a different matter, and yes agree again that you should be drinking fairly steadily rather than gulping large quantities, although I've done similar short duathlons by simply opening the top of the bottle in transition and necking half of it !

It does sound like you went off too fast in the first run - this should be very steady and feel really easy.
Then steadily into the bike rather than off like a rocket and into the red zone within the first quarter mile...
- aim for nagative splits !

That last run though is on legs that firstly don't seem connected to your body and nervous system, then after 200yds get connected but feel like they're made of wood, then after half a mile feel like running legs again but are just plain knackered.
Practice makes the difference here I'm afraid, go out on the bike and come back and run - the other switch from run to bike is not the same issue at all.
Experiment with finishing the bike in a lower gear so that you're spinning faster and see if that makes a difference; experiment with your running style and see if you can adopt a different gait/stride length/cadence for the first bit of the run and see if that improves things.
Ultimately though, having done it a few times, you will be able to gauge your effort better, maybe even accept that the first bit of the last run will be slow until you 'get your legs back', but then save enough so that it's a decent run and you're only knackered as you cross the finishing line
(I might get it right myslef one day... :roll: )

GiantMike · August 2009

Personally I'd use the gels unless they were going to hinder your performance.

Firstly, they MAY help your performance and secondly, you may think they're helping your performance and get a boost from that. There's nothing worse than thinking "I wish I'd had a gel" when you haven't had one, but I've never though "I didn't need that gel after all".

Anonymous · August 2009

Good advice on here, well done on your first duathlon. The best advice I got for transitions is to keep them really simple and get a set routine. That way if you have practised your routine it becomes second nature, you don't get flustered and don't lose time.

On gels etc for shorter distances, I always have a gel at the start of the bike leg, whether it helps physically, mentally it seems to give me a kick. Also as someone else posted, spin it up toward the end of the bike leg to free your legs up ready for the second run, god luck.

Duathlon Advice needed

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