Motorbikes, filtering and ASLs - opinions please!
Big Red S
Posts: 26,890
Basically, I've found myself commuting through London by motorbike far more than by pedalling of late (I save the pedalling for when there's no traffic), and I'm still not entirely sure what to do with ASLs.
Say a motorcyclist has just been filtering down the line of traffic, gets to the front and finds an ASL and a red light in front of him[1], should he
- Enter the ASL and keep to one side
- Stop at the first stop line as the law requires, but blocking access to the ASL from behind (same would apply if he'd filtered down the left and come across the really short bike lane entrance to it)
- Stop at the first stop line, but move into the ASL if someone appears behind him
- Go straight through the ASL, waiting the other side of its stop line, so as not to pass the cyclists when the lights go green
- Have not been filtering through traffic
- Other (with comments please).
My personal opinion is that entering the ASL and going to the right is quite OK with me as a cyclist. But I accept that it probably isn't for an awful lot of other cyclists. In general, I'll wait at the first stop line until a cyclist comes up behind me, then enter the ASL and move to one side so he can enter it. But I've had a few dirty looks from cyclists for/while doing this.
[1] This does all, of course, apply to female motorcyclists, too. But our protagonist is male.
Say a motorcyclist has just been filtering down the line of traffic, gets to the front and finds an ASL and a red light in front of him[1], should he
- Enter the ASL and keep to one side
- Stop at the first stop line as the law requires, but blocking access to the ASL from behind (same would apply if he'd filtered down the left and come across the really short bike lane entrance to it)
- Stop at the first stop line, but move into the ASL if someone appears behind him
- Go straight through the ASL, waiting the other side of its stop line, so as not to pass the cyclists when the lights go green
- Have not been filtering through traffic
- Other (with comments please).
My personal opinion is that entering the ASL and going to the right is quite OK with me as a cyclist. But I accept that it probably isn't for an awful lot of other cyclists. In general, I'll wait at the first stop line until a cyclist comes up behind me, then enter the ASL and move to one side so he can enter it. But I've had a few dirty looks from cyclists for/while doing this.
[1] This does all, of course, apply to female motorcyclists, too. But our protagonist is male.
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Comments
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When I rode a moped I used the ASL, I have to admit - it was 50cc and I wasn't sufficiently confident in the acceleration. I was always courteous to cyclists, though (I know that's not an excuse).0
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Big Red S wrote:Basically, I've found myself commuting through London by motorbike far more than by pedalling of late (I save the pedalling for when there's no traffic), and I'm still not entirely sure what to do with ASLs.
Don't enter them unless the lights are green?0 -
Greg66 wrote:Big Red S wrote:Basically, I've found myself commuting through London by motorbike far more than by pedalling of late (I save the pedalling for when there's no traffic), and I'm still not entirely sure what to do with ASLs.
Don't enter them unless the lights are green?
Yes, that's the obvious one.
But then I end up with cyclists held up behind me. I generally do then move into the ASL to let them into it, but like I say I know I've had less than happy reactions to this.0 -
I've said stop at the first line as ASL are, according to the letter of the law, for cyclist.
I did witness an argument between a motorcyclist and a cyclist once when they took objection to the petrol powered one being in the ASL.
Personally I'm not to fussed tbh, most motorcyclists I've encountered will make room for me to get through if there is space. I've even had a few hang back in traffic when filtering if they see a gap they can't make but I could :-) I'd do the same on my bike if I have another rider come alongside me when on my bike, move over to get them into a safer position. I'm fairly confident I can get a decent lick of acceleration away from the lights so don't really want to be worrying about the persons who just wobbled into the box on their MTB :-D
At the end of the day as long as all road users show a mutual respect for each other we'll all get along just fine! This of course isn't going to happen anytime soon - especially in London :roll:0 -
I'm quite happy for motorbikes to be in ASLs, and in primary position as well. I really can't see how that puts the cyclist at a disadvantage, I'd rather have them out of the way asap when the lights change, rather than worrying about what they're upto behind me.
Situations where you get half a donzen cyclists infront of half a dozen bikes and scooters just get silly.0 -
Get to the ASL (safer for them for the some of the same reasons its safer for us) but stay the hell out of my way and use common sense.
I want them to obey the spirit of ASL's and let me get away first, unless there is bags of room - they will still be visible to drivers, but whereas I have a fraction of a second when I can get a jump on cars, they are able to accelerate with and ahead of them at any time. As such, I don't want to pause to let a motorcyclist dart in front of me (which I do because I assume, as I do with all other road users, that they are idiots and forget I exist the moment I am not in plain view, and sometimes before).0 -
As a motorcyclist, I have always given way to bikes in the ASL area, but most of the time, I can ride straight though on the right (cyclists tend to be on the left) and then nail it off the lights!0
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I'm finding theres a bit of conflict at ASL's in london.
I think the worst thing as a cyclist is to filter to the front and find you way blocked by motorbikes and end up being amongst cars busses and lorries.
Being on the right is probably the best, thought more complicated if the bike is turning left, or a cyclist turning right.
If the motorbikes are in front, i've found their exhaust literally blows straight into your face, as it tends to be angled upwards and many of them route under the seat.0 -
It's not a lot better to be the motorbike weighing up whether to enter the ASL or not...MyPace wrote:I think the worst thing as a cyclist is to filter to the front and find you way blocked by motorbikes and end up being amongst cars busses and lorries.
I hadn't thought of this. TBH, I'd never noticed it as much of an issue, but I've only really shared roads with motorbikes when I've been on a motorbike. I'll bear this in mind.If the motorbikes are in front, i've found their exhaust literally blows straight into your face, as it tends to be angled upwards and many of them route under the seat.
I do remember that buses are the best for warming your feet and ankles, though.0 -
I went for stop at the first line too.
I don't mind motorbikes/scooters being in ASLs, if they abide by the following conditions:
1. remember that they are there for cyclists, and you should not inconvenience or impede cyclists. I don't mind you shooting off ahead of me, I do mind if you do so in a manner that inconveniences me.
2. If you position yourself in front of me you'd damn well better be faster off the mark and faster pulling away than I am. A torrent of abuse will be heading your way otherwise.
3. If you go in front of me, please try to position yourself far enough in front of me that I am not asphyxiated by your fetid exhaust fumes.
4. If you try to elbow your way in front of me or other cyclists you will be subject to my wrath. See point 1.
5. If you have been stupid enough to filter down the wrong side of the road, do not expect me to let you in.0 -
As a motorcyclist, I was always under the impression that filtering is a bloody stupid thing to do anyway. There's always one tosser who will want to change lanes or decide that they're going to drop their passenger off in the middle of a traffic jam, so I NEVER filter. Ever.0
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while I appreciate that p2ws are vulnerable road users too, I do have a problem with them going into ASLs, sitting on the right and then turning left across me. This seems to happen quite a lot on my commute through east and central London. I've even had occassions where I've told the powered rider that I'm turning right and asked him what he was doiing (I'm usually in the left / middle having filtered up using the cycle lane. I can't sit on the right becuase he is there). Generally I'm ignored or get a grunt. I then pull away slowly as I know what is always going to happen - tw@ is going to cut right across me!Pain is only weakness leaving the body0
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lost_in_thought wrote:I went for stop at the first line too.
I don't mind motorbikes/scooters being in ASLs, if they abide by the following conditions:
1. remember that they are there for cyclists, and you should not inconvenience or impede cyclists. I don't mind you shooting off ahead of me, I do mind if you do so in a manner that inconveniences me.
2. If you position yourself in front of me you'd damn well better be faster off the mark and faster pulling away than I am. A torrent of abuse will be heading your way otherwise.
3. If you go in front of me, please try to position yourself far enough in front of me that I am not asphyxiated by your fetid exhaust fumes.
4. If you try to elbow your way in front of me or other cyclists you will be subject to my wrath. See point 1.
5. If you have been stupid enough to filter down the wrong side of the road, do not expect me to let you in.
+1 for all of them, reading that tho does remind me on when me, you and ClevePun had the chap on the mini-moto on Vauxhall Bridge Road after the SCR Xmas bash!
I'm not sure if the petrified look on his face was from seeing a 6" man on a Brompton or from the young lady yelling "After you, after you!!!"
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dave_hill wrote:As a motorcyclist, I was always under the impression that filtering is a bloody stupid thing to do anyway. There's always one tosser who will want to change lanes or decide that they're going to drop their passenger off in the middle of a traffic jam, so I NEVER filter. Ever.
But but but you may as well have a car!! What's the point of having a bike of any flavour if you can't filter?0 -
biondino wrote:dave_hill wrote:As a motorcyclist, I was always under the impression that filtering is a bloody stupid thing to do anyway. There's always one tosser who will want to change lanes or decide that they're going to drop their passenger off in the middle of a traffic jam, so I NEVER filter. Ever.
But but but you may as well have a car!! What's the point of having a bike of any flavour if you can't filter?
+1 Totally agree with Biondino!
I think you need to MTFU on a motorbike!!0 -
Bassjunkieuk wrote:lost_in_thought wrote:I went for stop at the first line too.
I don't mind motorbikes/scooters being in ASLs, if they abide by the following conditions:
1. remember that they are there for cyclists, and you should not inconvenience or impede cyclists. I don't mind you shooting off ahead of me, I do mind if you do so in a manner that inconveniences me.
2. If you position yourself in front of me you'd damn well better be faster off the mark and faster pulling away than I am. A torrent of abuse will be heading your way otherwise.
3. If you go in front of me, please try to position yourself far enough in front of me that I am not asphyxiated by your fetid exhaust fumes.
4. If you try to elbow your way in front of me or other cyclists you will be subject to my wrath. See point 1.
5. If you have been stupid enough to filter down the wrong side of the road, do not expect me to let you in.
+1 for all of them, reading that tho does remind me on when me, you and ClevePun had the chap on the mini-moto on Vauxhall Bridge Road after the SCR Xmas bash!
I'm not sure if the petrified look on his face was from seeing a 6" man on a Brompton or from the young lady yelling "After you, after you!!!"
See, I TRY to be nice... it gets me nowhere. 0 -
biondino wrote:dave_hill wrote:As a motorcyclist, I was always under the impression that filtering is a bloody stupid thing to do anyway. There's always one tosser who will want to change lanes or decide that they're going to drop their passenger off in the middle of a traffic jam, so I NEVER filter. Ever.
But but but you may as well have a car!! What's the point of having a bike of any flavour if you can't filter?
Sorry, should have qualified it really - I ride so bloody fast I'm always first at the lights anyway... 0 -
dave_hill wrote:biondino wrote:dave_hill wrote:As a motorcyclist, I was always under the impression that filtering is a bloody stupid thing to do anyway. There's always one tosser who will want to change lanes or decide that they're going to drop their passenger off in the middle of a traffic jam, so I NEVER filter. Ever.
But but but you may as well have a car!! What's the point of having a bike of any flavour if you can't filter?
Sorry, should have qualified it really - I ride so bloody fast I'm always first at the lights anyway...
With your knees on fire!!!! Bonzer, good man!!!!!0 -
All I know is that one of these days I am going to flip out and kill the myriad feckers who surround me at Vauxhall in the big ASL at the end of the Albert Embankment.
It's very useful to be able to get away as fast as you can to get into the middle of the five lanes (if you are heading my way, anyway). But I rarely can because I am surrounded by feckwits and I have to keep an eye on what they are doing and check they are not cutting me up etc. They should be well behind me.0 -
This is the problem, though. It's equally useful to do that on a motorbike, and cyclists in front of you are equally frustrating.Totalnewbie wrote:It's very useful to be able to get away as fast as you can to get into the middle of the five lanes0 -
Thought I would bump this thread. On my commute today there were two instances where i could not get into the ASL due to it being full of motorbikes, meaning I was stuck behind with a car bumper on my back wheel. I was also cut up by a motorbike coming into the cycle lane in stationary traffic to undertake.
I am starting to bloody hate motorbikes - particularly pikey couriers in bomber jackets.0 -
I had an incident in the middle of last year with a moped in a cycle lane going up a big hill - he was moving real slow due to heavy traffic - so, I sat behind him for a bit as soon as I saw a gap, manned up, elbows out and pushed him off as I passed....Idiot should not have been in a cycle lane, particularly on a hill - there was a massive gap between the traffic on the dual carraigeway to filter though - the idiot clearly did not have a CBT or any test cert - just gone out and bought a moped.
Quite simply - there are an awful lot of people that have bought bikes and mopeds, not completed and tests/training/have no confidence just to beat traffic or beat the recent fuel crisis. They are idiots and should be caught and banned. A real biker will always filter to the right and go to the right at lights in the ASL.....
Grr - makes me angry! As it is basic etiquette.0 -
There's only one ASL on my commute and I rarely see motorbikes in it, more often than not I can't get to the ASL because a car has driven into it. If I do get to use it I need to turn right and position myself accordingly, which seems to annoy alot of the lazy gits cutting the corner to get into the road. I would say as long as motorbikes are curtious I don't have a problem with them being there.0
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Thats the problem, courtesy. Too many just plonk themselves in the prime spot in the ASL. They've often overtaken cyclists to get there and then just ignore that fact.
Have to say I lost it the other day. Third ASL in a row, Mr and Mrs moped kept filling the front left of the box, despite a number of cyclists also trying to use the box. I kinda barged between them at the third, remarking that they should read up on the highway code. Mr moped they came up along side, remarking that nobody has died yet (WTF?!?). Unfortunately, and this happens all too often when I get mad on my bike, I start to squeal that he should stay the f*@k out of the ASL. Hmmm, red mist and a high pitched rant. Didn't feel great about it, but they were being inconsiderate to cyclists they were blocking.
I don't have a problem if they are used with consideration for those they were designed for, but when its just motorbikes sprawled around on mass, that peeves me somewhat...
Going away to practice manly ranting.0 -
Totalnewbie wrote:All I know is that one of these days I am going to flip out and kill the myriad feckers who surround me at Vauxhall in the big ASL at the end of the Albert Embankment.
It's very useful to be able to get away as fast as you can to get into the middle of the five lanes (if you are heading my way, anyway). But I rarely can because I am surrounded by feckwits and I have to keep an eye on what they are doing and check they are not cutting me up etc. They should be well behind me.
There speaks the voice of reason :twisted:0 -
Is is fair that I have to sit in the traffic, whilst some poncy scooter riding, garlic munching French hedge fund manager with his RayBans, hand made shoes, Gitane smouldering away at a jaunty angle, and a silk cravat sits in my ASL box with a haughty expression?
Fact is that you won't stop motorbikes going in the ASLs so not much point in worrying about it. Its no fun to have a bike's exhaust pipe blowing fumes in your face so I hang back at those ASLs where I know they'll be full of Domino pizza mopeds. Unless I'm really hungry. Many a West London chav has opened their £9.99 special to find a big bite taken out and a few drips of sweat where the missing piece was.
Busy ASLs will probably be controlled by cameras at some stage - purely for revenue raising. I believe the fine is £80 and 3 points but the number of proscecutions in London last year was 2.Bike1
http://www.flickr.com/photos/35118936@N07/3258551288/
Bike 2
http://www.flickr.com/photos/35118936@N ... otostream/
New Bike
http://www.flickr.com/photos/35118936@N07/3479300346/0 -
The Chingford Skinhead wrote:I've even had occassions where I've told the powered rider that I'm turning right and asked him what he was doiing (I'm usually in the left / middle having filtered up using the cycle lane. !
that seems pretty sensible....communicating with people and so avoiding unnecessary elbowing offs or stern shoutings. Whenever I see an adult on a bicycle, I believe in the future of the human race.
H.G. Wells.0 -
Enter the ASL and be as small as you can, do not block it for cyclists (bear in mind that by entering the ASL you are breaking the law but I'd rather than than you blocking the entrance to the ASL).
What I do object to is the f****s who sit there thrumming their 1.2 litre highly aspirated engine in my face (I think I'm actually going to start asking people to stop doing this).0 -
Christophe3967 wrote:Busy ASLs will probably be controlled by cameras at some stage - purely for revenue raising. I believe the fine is £80 and 3 points but the number of proscecutions in London last year was 2.
Its a recession, governments are desperate for money, and they are missing out on what would be a highly profitable revenue stream?
I can't believe it, maybe we should start a petition with No.10...? :P'Twas Mulga Bill, from Eaglehawk, that caught the cycling craze....0
