Corner speed question..........
Comments
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Just found this, makes you laugh.... the tire must be shagged!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdXTn_WK ... re=relatedCycling never gets any easier, you just go faster - Greg LeMond0 -
Thats quite impressive... I do wonder about the tyres though... looked like it was either on the threads or had some sort of white stuff on it.
As to the person who said bikes don't slide... they most definitely do... If you look at the pictures at the top of the page on the sheldon brown site, you can tell the front wheel is slightly turned out of the corner. This is because the rear will be slipping ever so slightly - basic dynamics says it will - you actually get maximum 'grip' at around 5% slip. So if you are absolutely caning it then at least one tyre will start slipping. This is quite controllable what is less controllable is when the grip level suddenly decreases - i.e. it slips a lot more than 5% or you hit gravel / water / oil etc this is much harder to predict and so much harder to shift weight about to balance the bike. This is much the same as should happen on a motorbike I would imagine, just that it will feel slightly different.0 -
marmitecp wrote:Higher TPI counts (more flexible carcass) and softer compounds help. Continental GP4000S with the black chilli compound are very sticky in the dry.
At this time of year though, safety first! I corner like a granny on a Pashley, its far too easy to break something and be off the bike for weeks.
@ 40 secs in the first clip, when they couldn't use the full apex due to the oncoming red car - I would have bricked it!!
i almost bricked it by just watching that clip :shock:0 -
That youtube clip is actually a little of an irrelevance- the bike has quite chunky tyres on so will be a lot more controllable with the tyres not gripping - just like MTBs are (I can hold a feet-up 2 wheel drift for a reasonable while on a good day, offroad - feels SO good when you get it right)
On a road bike though, the transition from grip to no grip is always very sudden, so I never seem to have time to compensate the balance before hitting the deck. Being clipped in that much tighter doesn't help either. I've caught a couple of rear wheel slides by luck, but never a front wheel one. (worst road crsh I 've had was getting a front wheel puncture going through a corner on my fixie - front wheel slid until my still turning pedals grounded out and launched me. Feck, but that hurt.)0 -
The condescending tone is almost certainly down to Jobst getting bored with having to refute the same old set of myths all the time - myths which regularly crop up on here too!andrewgturnbull wrote:If you can get past the almost overbearing condescending tone, that is actually a very good article!0 -
I've always stuck my knee out on long descents. It just feels right.There seem to be lots of articles saying that this is wrong, but whenever I watch the good descenders on the Tour, the majority stick their knee out! As I recollect that would include Salvodelli.
I think I'm a reasonably fast and controlled descender, and often find myself waiting for other riders after long descents. It may be that sticking the knee out just brings the rest of the body into line!0 -
Nickwill wrote:I've always stuck my knee out on long descents. It just feels right.There seem to be lots of articles saying that this is wrong, but whenever I watch the good descenders on the Tour, the majority stick their knee out! As I recollect that would include Salvodelli.
I think I'm a reasonably fast and controlled descender, and often find myself waiting for other riders after long descents. It may be that sticking the knee out just brings the rest of the body into line!
I remember seeing a photo somewhere on the web of Myles Rockwell, ex pro MTB Downhill racer, banked around a corner in a road bike downhill race - it was probably one of those Red Bull sponsored ones. He was wearing pseudo motorcycling gear - pads everywhere, full face helmet, and so on. The picture was presented with oohs and aahs of reverence - as if to say, here is the ultimate in risky daredevil riding. Knee out, angry grimace, etc.
The lean angle was considerably more upright (slower cornering speed) than that picture of old Jobst, traditional bike, ordinary position, normal bike clothes. I've never seen anybody go around a corner that fast. Pros are just as susceptible to mythology as anybody else.0 -
andrewgturnbull wrote:Hi there.
If you can get past the almost overbearing condescending tone, that is actually a very good article!
Cheers, Andy
People vary, I suppose. Many are affronted at the condescension they detect in Jobst's writing. I'm aware of it too, but it is his analytical economy, and clarity, which strike me first. That's why I link to his articles so often.0 -
Backstedt is a fast descender because.... Oh yes, he's 90kg. And what goes up a hill like a slug comes down it very quickly! Physics is great innit.
The effect of tyres on being able to corner hard, while significant, is not nearly as important as technique. Having your body weight distributed optimally is critical to maintaining speed whilst avoiding a spill. And knowing what's coming. Corners that you can't see out of are a big hazard if you're not expecting them and gunning it. Having ridden a descent before and/or having someone ahead to watch (who's competent obviously!) are useful.
The clips are hard to comment on as it's not at all clear how fast they're actually going and none of the turns are very sharp or tricky.0 -
I think it is very rare to reach the limit of grip on a dry road. I think most people bottle it long before. Including the pros (who in fairness must suffer from PTSD from crashes and so probably arent the best examples - I'm sure most 17 year old mtn bikers would be much faster).
Road bikes dont drift.
Brakes are for stopping not for 'controlling speed'. Fast descending on roads with sharp bends involves almost stopping from high speed.0 -
I reckon you're wrong - unless they've done much riding on the road the MTBers will almost certainly be slower, since the feedback is all different. You only have to look at a few TdF videos to see how the pros do often approach, or even sometimes exceeed the limits. Personally I've done it a few times, though not for quite a lot of years now (hence one of the reasons why I was a fast descender many years ago - I had a good idea where the limit was).steve2021 wrote:Including the pros (who in fairness must suffer from PTSD from crashes and so probably arent the best examples - I'm sure most 17 year old mtn bikers would be much faster).0 -
I don't think you often see the pros come close to the limits of traction on dry roads (they do on wet alot). Normally you seem them overshoot which is what you do when you are worried about losing traction - i.e you steer less - but I think that is through losing their nerve (I dont blame them btw) rather than actually being close to slipping.
Maybe you are right about the mtb'ers but I still dont think pro cyclists in the middle of stage race are likely to be the fastest or best downhillers - certainly not the ones you see anyway (who are normally climbers).0
