Help - i can't eat enough to avoid the bonk

portuguese mike · June 2008

I really struggle to eat enough for very long rides (over 90 miles). I start off eating energy bars (Torq) (and the odd banana) about half an hour into a ride eating about 1 an hour (little and often)then i switch to energy gels. the problem is that after three bars i find them really hard to stomach and i start to feel a bit queasy so i don't eat much more.

I can get away with this on rides up to about 90 miles (fof the tour of wessex stage one with no probs) but beyond that i struggle. On Sunday, doing the Highclere event, i blew up spectacularly after 93 miles. i had absoultely nothing left in my legs and had to crawl round to the end. i averaged 14.2 mph for the last 33 miles (i had been averaging 17.3 up till then) and i suffered like never before on a bike

.

i really worried about this happening on the Etape next month (and the dragon on sunday) because not only does it ruin and otherwise great ride but i don't want to feel like that again or get swept up by the borrm wagon.

What can i do to make sure i take on enough fuel, what else could i eat that won't make me feel sick? please help

ColinJ · June 2008

What did you eat and drink the day before the event?

What did you eat and drink before you started the event and how long before?

What did you drink during the event?

Did you feel too hot while you were riding?

How much do you normally weigh and how much did you weigh after the event?

portuguese mike · June 2008

ColinJ wrote:

What did you eat and drink the day before the event?

I ate Jordans cereal for breakfast, had ham sandwiches for lunch and had monkefish with piles of mashed potato, peas and carrots. i drank water, orange jiuce and fruit sqaush throughout the day.

What did you eat and drink before you started the event and how long before?

had a large bowl of cereal 2 slices of toast and jam and a banana 2 hours before then another banana half an hour before

What did you drink during the event?

5 litres of water with Zym catapault electrolyte tables (1 per litre)

Did you feel too hot while you were riding?

Not particularly no

How much do you normally weigh and how much did you weigh after the event?

11 stone 9.5lbs

11 stone 7lbs

ut_och_cykla · June 2008

Most people can't take on more than 60g carbs per hour so make sure you start topped up.

Keep on nibbling all teh time, alternate with carb drink/water /real food/bars& gels.

More is not better if it all gets stuck in your stomach - you'll feel sick and your legs get zilch carbs.
Unripe bananas are very slow to digest too. Try fig rolls, white bread & jam (no butter), other low fat biscuits & cakes. Raisins and dates are good too but don't agree with everybody

try cycling very slightly slower - you'll last longer that way too.

Your body weight afterwards suggest you were dehydrated. approx 2.5% loss could equal as much as 30 % loss in power.
My guess would be eat slightly less, better spread out, more carbs as liquids, slightly slower especially in first hour or so
Good luck

ColinJ · June 2008

Hmm...

Nothing obvious there except the weight loss which as mentioned above suggests that perhaps you should have drunk more. To be honest, I've lost more than that on a ride without getting knackered but once it gets to the 4 or 5 pounds mark I really start to suffer.

richa · June 2008

I would suggest your issue is not helped by what you are drinking. Zym will be great for electrolyte replacement but has No/Low energy value. I would suggest some energy drink such as High5 Isotonuic that will do both jobs.

A strategy for the dragon could be (assuming 8hrs):
3 banana = 315 KCal / 81g carb
3 torq bars = 653kc / 138g
3 torq gels = 344kc / 86g
5 litres High5 isotonic = 1536kc / 384g

Total = 2849 KCal = 356 KCal / Hr
Total = 384g Carb = 86g Carb / Hr.

This should be more than enough. Body can't take in much more than this.

I would carry the bars, gels & drinks powder and then pick up bananas at the feeds.

portuguese mike · June 2008

Many thanks for the replies. i think energy drink sounds like a very good idea as well as mixing up what i eat a bit more. Fingers crossed it works out for the Dragon.

DaveyL · June 2008

I would recommend High5 4:1 energy drink, though some people find it gets a bit heavy towards the end of a long ride. High5 isotonic energy drink is a good one to switch to.

Whatever energy drink you plan to use, make sure you try it out on some shorter rides, as certain ones seem to disagree with certain people. Like Joe Beer says - TESTIT - Try Everything Several Times In Training!

BeaconRuth · June 2008

I could sit here on the sofa eating Torq bars and energy gels every half hour for 5 or 6 hours and I'd feel terrible. What a repulsive thought. Why should my stomach and digestive system feel any better about having all that sweet, sickly stuff if I was riding my bike instead of sitting on my backside? OK, I'd need the energy, but I reckon I'd feel just as sick.

Ordinary food is the way to go IMO - whatever you fancy. There's something about ham sandwiches that always seems very appealing to me after about 90 miles. Jaffa cakes always go down a treat too after I've got bored with bananas. But anything will get you round a sportive - your favourite biscuits or muesli bars or flapjack, dried fruit, bagels.................. think of all the lovely, ORDINARY possibilities!

Ruth

portuguese mike · June 2008

I think you have a very good point there BeaconRuth - after riders managed the TdeF for donkeys years before 'energy' bars & drinks were invented. BTW ham sandwiches really appeal to me too after a while in the saddle.

Jamey · June 2008

Can I ask a stupid newbie question that you'll probably all laugh at me for?

Do you guys pull this stuff out of a bag (or pocket), unwrap it and eat it while riding or do you have to stop to do it? And with carb drinks, do you collect water from a feed station and then mix the drink up yourself during the event? If so, surely you have to stop for that, yes?

You can't carry five litres of water with you and even if you could it'd slow you down, so you wouldn't want to, surely? So do you fill up your own bottles at taps along the way or do they hand out bottles that are already full? If the latter, do you need to hand the bottles back at the end of the race or what?

Sorry for the dumb questions but I'm intrigued.

ut_och_cykla · June 2008

My hubby did vetternrundan (300km) partly on enrgy drink carried ready weighed plastic bags of teh stuff taped to his bike, filled water bottles from feed stations. Didn't tolerate sausage & mash they served very well - spent long minutes in toilet queue afterwards. But I agree with ruth - real food works well too - just practice in training first

DaveyL · June 2008

portuguese mike wrote:

I think you have a very good point there BeaconRuth - after riders managed the TdeF for donkeys years before 'energy' bars & drinks were invented. BTW ham sandwiches really appeal to me too after a while in the saddle.

They also managed on 40 lb bikes with single gears etc....

Ruth - some people get on with "sports" bars, some don't - fair enough. There may be a lot of marketing hype over them, but a lot of the good ones don't contain any fat. Many "proper" foods do, and when your body and digestive system are already working hard, maybe the last thing you need is for it to have to process unecessary stuff like fats (in the context of fuelling your exercise). Then again I did a 112 mile sportive in 30 degree heat and got through 7 Torq bars all of the same flavour and some folk thought I was a bit odd for doing that! Then again I'm not sure I could have faced "proper" food on the bike in those conditions. Horses for courses, I guess, I wouldn't discourage anyone from experimenting with either energy bars OR "proper" food...

JonEdwards · June 2008

Couple of comments as a relative beginner in the world of sports nutrition.

I've been told that for water (and electrolytes) to be effectively absorbed by the body, you need to take some carb with it, or else the water (especially if it's in quantity) goes straight through you. So the "energy drinks" like Hi5, SIS, Torq etc are a lot more effective at keeping you hydrated than pure electrolyte, and they give you energy too. All good

I'm a fairly big fan of Torq Energy drink - less of the post-ride afterburner effect :shock: :oops: , and I can't remember the last time I bonked whilst using it. I could also quite happily eat Torq bars for pleasure (LOVE the Pineapple and Ginger) but each to their own.

What I have noticed about "real food" is that I tend to get a real good sugar spike (flapjack is my particular weakness), which is great whilst it lasts, but makes me feel really crap when it wears off. Most of the sports bars seem to release stuff slower and in a less spiky fashion.

Never tried gels, but my missus is a recent convert - they do seem to work, given the way she'll suddenly whip my ass up the hills after one.

clanton · June 2008

Jamey wrote:

Can I ask a stupid newbie question that you'll probably all laugh at me for?

Do you guys pull this stuff out of a bag (or pocket), unwrap it and eat it while riding or do you have to stop to do it? And with carb drinks, do you collect water from a feed station and then mix the drink up yourself during the event? If so, surely you have to stop for that, yes?

You can't carry five litres of water with you and even if you could it'd slow you down, so you wouldn't want to, surely? So do you fill up your own bottles at taps along the way or do they hand out bottles that are already full? If the latter, do you need to hand the bottles back at the end of the race or what?

Sorry for the dumb questions but I'm intrigued.

Hi Jamie

Normally people fill their bottles on route, most carry 2 for sportive style riding. There are water stataions and these usually supply both water and energy drink (whichever one is sponsoring the event!) In the past I've taken packets of my preferred energy drink, more recently I've taken to just drinking wahetevr was on offer but for bigger rides like the Dragon I will carry packets of High5 again.

As for stopping for food, with gels its easy not to stop, I find unwrapping bars awkard to do on the move and stop for these but thats cause I've got shite balance, many riders could probably eat with a knife and fork whilst on the go!

GeorgeShaw · June 2008

Munching bars on the go shouldn't be a problem. A good idea is to snip one end off the wrapper, so you don't have to mess about trying to do that on the fly. As you should be having a munch every 15-20 minutes, then stopping would be a pain.

I take small plastic bags of Torq Energy powder with me, and mix my own at the water stations.

Gr.uB · June 2008

Mike,
I am a diet diabetic so I have been struggling for years to get my feeding right. If I start to deplete too much sugar my mind goes and I feel like crap and want to stop.
On the BCM this year I experimented with Torq powder and gels.
The powder mix was quite weak but it still blew me up and my stomach cramps from wind were very clenching to say the least.
On the Highclere 205k event on the weekend I did not use any powders what so ever. I had just plain water or water with no added sugar squash in it.
I also consumed 6 Torq gels, several banana halves and 4 peanut butter and jam sandwiches.
I managed 18.35 mph average and had the legs for a commute to and from work yesterday and today of 46 miles per day.

The gels do get a bit sickening after the first few and I have to eat them before I feel hungry but I know / remember what the bonk feeling is like, and I don't want to fail or feel like crap when I am doing something I love, so I force myself to eat them.

I had a plan. I had a gel at the start, then one at 35 miles, 60 miles, 85 miles, 100 miles and 110 miles. I felt very good afterwards.

portuguese mike · June 2008

Gr.uB wrote:

Mike,
I am a diet diabetic so I have been struggling for years to get my feeding right. If I start to deplete too much sugar my mind goes and I feel like crap and want to stop.
On the BCM this year I experimented with Torq powder and gels.
The powder mix was quite weak but it still blew me up and my stomach cramps from wind were very clenching to say the least.
On the Highclere 205k event on the weekend I did not use any powders what so ever. I had just plain water or water with no added sugar squash in it.
I also consumed 6 Torq gels, several banana halves and 4 peanut butter and jam sandwiches.
I managed 18.35 mph average and had the legs for a commute to and from work yesterday and today of 46 miles per day.

The gels do get a bit sickening after the first few and I have to eat them before I feel hungry but I know / remember what the bonk feeling is like, and I don't want to fail or feel like crap when I am doing something I love, so I force myself to eat them.

I had a plan. I had a gel at the start, then one at 35 miles, 60 miles, 85 miles, 100 miles and 110 miles. I felt very good afterwards.

Yes, i think i should have eaten more 'normal' food - i find peanuts/peanut butter very good usually but i didn't notice any at the feed stations. What didn't help was eating a whole banana at the 2nd feed station then riding up the rest of Steep hill at a decent pace it was after that when i started to fell very queasy - should have put the 'nana in by pocket and eaten it at the top - don't think it would have stopped me bonking though.

That an impressive average BTW - have you done lots of these sorts of events? i've only done a few this long so i'm hoping i'll improve with experience.

Gr.uB · June 2008

Mike,
I ride my bike to work. That is all I do.
I like riding it and as I commute 23 miles each way, I have plenty of time to play around with pedal technique and hill work etc.
I've done a few audax rides and I've done the Salisbury 100 mile sportive a couple of times.
Time is the problem. I would like to do more but I would probably be divorced if I suggested it.

I was really chuffed with my time as I have been concentrating on Long Slow Distances of late as I'm training my body to use fat ( I have stores of the stuff

) and endurance training and speed training are two different kettles of fish.
Next year I will already have an endurance base so will do some speed work before doing the Highclere again.

Don't underestimate just how demoralising bonking can be. If you can get your feeding right it not only ensures your legs have power, but I find my mind remains positive so you can keep pushing and going for it.

Tom Butcher · June 2008

Another vote for normal food here. For a sportive like the FW or Autumn Epic I'd probably get through 4 * 750 bottles of Hi5 made about half the strength they recommend, a couple of bananas, 3-4 bits of flapjack depending on what is provided at the feed stations and then I might take a couple of bits of ginger loaf or malt loaf for the section to the first feed - and I normally finish events strongly. Blowing up isn't always down to lack of fuel - in this case it sounds more like the OP lacked the endurance to maintain his pace over the whole event rather than a fuelling issue. I also think there is something to be said for training without too much fuel - eg I did 80 miles in the Peak on Sunday on water, a coffee, one can of coke (ran out of water and needed a drink) and a couple of bananas.

portuguese mike · June 2008

Tom Butcher wrote:

Another vote for normal food here. For a sportive like the FW or Autumn Epic I'd probably get through 4 * 750 bottles of Hi5 made about half the strength they recommend, a couple of bananas, 3-4 bits of flapjack depending on what is provided at the feed stations and then I might take a couple of bits of ginger loaf or malt loaf for the section to the first feed - and I normally finish events strongly. Blowing up isn't always down to lack of fuel - in this case it sounds more like the OP lacked the endurance to maintain his pace over the whole event rather than a fuelling issue. I also think there is something to be said for training without too much fuel - eg I did 80 miles in the Peak on Sunday on water, a coffee, one can of coke (ran out of water and needed a drink) and a couple of bananas.

Although that is clearly a possibility i'm fairly sure it was a fuelling issue. i did the autumn classic last year on the back of less training than i've done this year and i did quite well and my legs didn't die at all towards the end (finished in 6.40 for 116 miles) so i'd be suprised if my endurance has decreased. Also my legs still felt good at the end of the tour of wessex (stage 1).

sloboy · June 2008

For the "on the move" stuff, I lightly wrap stuff in foil which makes it fairly easy to undo with one hand and teeth. Also things like Brunch Bars cut in half with their wrapper are super easy to eat on the go.

BeaconRuth · June 2008

DaveyL wrote:

Ruth - some people get on with "sports" bars, some don't - fair enough. There may be a lot of marketing hype over them, but a lot of the good ones don't contain any fat. Many "proper" foods do, and when your body and digestive system are already working hard, maybe the last thing you need is for it to have to process unecessary stuff like fats (in the context of fuelling your exercise).

I agree some normal foods do contain more fat than would be ideal, but many don't too. One jaffa cake contains 1g of fat. I often eat 4 during a long ride, along with other things like bananas (almost no fat). I think any of us amateurs who think our performance is so optimal that it is impaired by 4g of fat (along with all the carbohydrate) over the course of a 5-6 hour ride is misguided. Being scientific is great, but there's no point in applying scientific principles beyond an appropriate degree.

Then again I did a 112 mile sportive in 30 degree heat and got through 7 Torq bars all of the same flavour and some folk thought I was a bit odd for doing that!

Yes, I'd think you're a bit odd for doing that. One of the most important aspects of good nutrition is to consume a variety of foods so that you get a range of nutrients. So maybe you've excluded every last gram of fat by only eating a 'sports' product - but you've then consumed only a a very limited variety of nutrients for fuel. I'd suggest that a little bit of fat and a lot more variety would have been a far better idea.

Then again I'm not sure I could have faced "proper" food on the bike in those conditions. Horses for courses, I guess, I wouldn't discourage anyone from experimenting with either energy bars OR "proper" food...

I agree, it's best to eat what you fancy, because what you fancy is probably what's best for you. It's just that I talk to so many people who think that they have to use 'sports' products and that everything else is hugely inferior. I don't think ordinary food is inferior for the majority of people engaged in the types of activities described on this forum.

Ruth

Mark Alexander · June 2008

How to avoid the bonk?

Get married!

Kirkeh · August 2008

portuguese mike wrote:

Gr.uB wrote:

Mike,
I am a diet diabetic so I have been struggling for years to get my feeding right

Out of intrest, are you a type 1 or type 2 diabetic? I'm a type 1 diabetic.
After a year of commuting on a hybrid I've took the plunge and bought a decent road bike. I'm hoping to start off with a few 10 mile TT's next year and go from there. I was just wondering how you cope with regulating your sugar levels whilst competing?
I acutally became diabetic 6 years ago (im now 36), up until this I was as fit as a fiddle, mainly weights and football and I managed to continue doing these sports with next to no problems. I always thought football to be a very intensive workout but it's got bugger all on doing a decent 30 mile ride at a good pace ! Any thoughts or advice on the subject would be greatly appreciated.

Scott

pmg001 · August 2008

I think some people here are confusing bonking with just not being fit enough.
No matter how much food you intake, if you don't have the engine it won't work!
It sounds like you're consuming more than you probably need already.

Mettan · August 2008

I find Melton Mowbary/Pork pies and Nuts provide a nice contrast to the constant ingestion of sugar-based drinks and foods throughout a 50 + mile Hilly ride - for a hard Hilly Sportive personally I'd go with Energy drinks/Energy bars & Melton Mowbary's/Nuts etc - a nice balance.

Help - i can't eat enough to avoid the bonk

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