Mayo Negative
Comments
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The David Walsh book (Lance to Landis) makes the allegations stated above.
It's a one-sided argument in the book but still pretty compelling. Think it all depends who you want to believe to start with.Brighton promoted 2004, Sussex Champs 2003, all downhill from here...0 -
Squiggsy wrote:The David Walsh book (Lance to Landis) makes the allegations stated above.
It's a one-sided argument in the book but still pretty compelling. Think it all depends who you want to believe to start with.
That IM conversation:
An instant message between Frankie Andreu (FDREU) and Jonathan Vaughters (Cyclevaughters) the morning of July 26, 2005.
Cyclevaughters: frankie - hey - thanks for talking the other day
FDREU: no problem, where are you
Cyclevaughters: back in CO
FDREU: nice, I just got home, isnt' it like 5AM
Cyclevaughters: sometimes i think i'm going to go nuts
Cyclevaughters: yeah
Cyclevaughters: it's 5am
FDREU: I agree, I came home and the air conditioning is broken
Cyclevaughters: ouch
FDREU: did your kid grow twice it's size in the two weeks you were gone
Cyclevaughters: yeah, his feet look bigger for some eason
FDREU: funny
Cyclevaughters: anyhow, i never can quite figure out why i don't just play along with the lance crowd - i mean shit it would make my life easier, eh? it's not like i never played with hotsauce, eh?
FDREU: I know, but in the end i don't think it comes back to bite you
FDREU: I play along, my wife does not, and Lance hates us both
FDREU: it's a no win situation, you know how he is. Once you leave the team or do soemthing wrong you forever banned
Cyclevaughters: i suppose - you know he tried to hire me back in 2001... he was nice to me... i just couldn't deal with that whole world
FDREU: I did not know that
FDREU: look at why everyone leaves, it's way to controlling
Cyclevaughters: once I went to CA and saw that now all the teams got 25 injections every day
Cyclevaughters: hell, CA was ZERO
FDREU: you mean all the riders
Cyclevaughters: Credit Agricole
FDREU: it's crazy
Cyclevaughters: So, I realized lance was full of shit when he'd say everyone was doing it
FDREU: You may read stuff that i say to radio or press, praising the Tour and lance but it's just playing the game
Cyclevaughters: believe me, as carzy as it sounds - Moreau was on nothing. Hct of 39%
FDREU: when in 2000-2001
Cyclevaughters: so, that's when you start thinking... hell, kevin was telling me that after 2000 Ullrich never raced over 42%--- yeah moreau in 2000-2001
Cyclevaughters: anyhow - whtever
FDREU: After 1999, you know many things changed. lance did not
FDREU: I believe that's part of whey kevin left, he was tired of the stuff
Cyclevaughters: yeah, i could explain the whole way lance dupes everyone
FDREU: what abut GH climbing the mountains better than azevedo and the entire group
Cyclevaughters: from how floyd described it, i know exactly the method
FDREU: explain that, classics to climber
FDREU: when did you talk with floyd
Cyclevaughters: i don't know - i want to trust George
Cyclevaughters: but the thing is on that team, you think it's normal
Cyclevaughters: or at least i did
FDREU: i guess. anything with blodd is not normal
Cyclevaughters: yeah, it's very complex how the avoid all the controls now, but it's not any new drug or anything, just the resources and planning to pull of a well devised plan
Cyclevaughters: it's why they all got dropped on stage 9 - no refill yet - then on the rest day - boom 800ml of packed cells
FDREU: they have it mastered. good point
Cyclevaughters: they draw the blood right after the dauphine
FDREU: how do they sneak it in, or keep it until needed
FDREU: i'm sure it's not with the truck in the frig
Cyclevaughters: motorcycle - refridgerated panniers
Cyclevaughters: on the rest day
Cyclevaughters: floyd has a photo of the thing
FDREU: crazy! it' just keep going to new levels
Cyclevaughters: yeah, it's complicated, but with enough money you can do it
FDREU: they have enough money. Floyd was so pissed at them this entire tour
Cyclevaughters: anyhow - i just feel sorry for floyd and some of the other guys
Cyclevaughters: why would lance keep doing the shit when he clearly has nothing to prove - it's weird
FDREU: I know. me to. they all get ripped into for no reason
FDREU: he's done now, thank god. but they will prove next year for Johan's sake that they are the greatest
Cyclevaughters: and then lance says " this guy and that guys are pussies"
FDREU: they won't stop
FDREU: I agree
Foer more on this story the following American radio shows are good start.
http://www.competitorradio.com/details.php?show=150
http://www.competitorradio.com/details.php?show=151
http://www.competitorradio.com/details.php?show=1540 -
What I love about this is
Cyclevaughters: so, that's when you start thinking... hell, kevin was telling me that after 2000 Ullrich never raced over 42%--- yeah moreau in 2000-2001
Uh huh. okay.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:What I love about this is
Cyclevaughters: so, that's when you start thinking... hell, kevin was telling me that after 2000 Ullrich never raced over 42%--- yeah moreau in 2000-2001
Uh huh. okay.
Maybe he was racing at 42% in 2001. The new test for EPO had been developed and they hadn't figured out how to get round it yet. JJ went clean in 2000 I think for the same reason.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
Timoid. wrote:Maybe he was racing at 42% in 2001. The new test for EPO had been developed and they hadn't figured out how to get round it yet. JJ went clean in 2000 I think for the same reason.
Not convinced. I reckon Jan was juicing good and proper through his whole career. You don't come 2nd in the Tour with 42% - Or if you did, you'd have to be maintaining that for the entire Tour.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:Timoid. wrote:Maybe he was racing at 42% in 2001. The new test for EPO had been developed and they hadn't figured out how to get round it yet. JJ went clean in 2000 I think for the same reason.
Not convinced. I reckon Jan was juicing good and proper through his whole career. You don't come 2nd in the Tour with 42% - Or if you did, you'd have to be maintaining that for the entire Tour.
But Moreau was 4th on 38%It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
Timoid. wrote:iainf72 wrote:Timoid. wrote:Maybe he was racing at 42% in 2001. The new test for EPO had been developed and they hadn't figured out how to get round it yet. JJ went clean in 2000 I think for the same reason.
Not convinced. I reckon Jan was juicing good and proper through his whole career. You don't come 2nd in the Tour with 42% - Or if you did, you'd have to be maintaining that for the entire Tour.
But Moreau was 4th on 38%
Mmmmm. Yes, good point. If we believe him I suppose. He does live in Switzerland and is experienced though :PFckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
So was that the cleanest Tour in recent history?0
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skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:So was that the cleanest Tour in recent history?
Possibly 2006 as all Fuentes clients had no access to their stored blood and had to ride on just the 8 pints.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
Timoid. wrote:skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:So was that the cleanest Tour in recent history?
Possibly 2006 as all Fuentes clients had no access to their stored blood and had to ride on just the 8 pints.
Maybe. The word is that Landis didn't get his usual "800 ml of packed cells" on the rest days either! It's a pity that he was still charged up on artificial testosterone in an attempt to counter it's natural depletion throughout the race, so aiding his day-to-day recovery! (By the way, anyone else remember how Boardman once said that the fact he suffered from a depleted testosterone level in a stage race was a major reason why he would never win the Tour unless he took to boosting it artificially?).
I was actually on the Joux-Plane that day and don't think I have seen a more knacked-looking bunch of riders than those in the group chasing Landis. Landis looked well composed in comparison and given his performances immediately beforehand it was obvious many simply couldn't believe what they were seeing, especially when they saw the state of those in the chasing group.0 -
aurelio wrote:Timoid. wrote:Maybe. The word is that Landis didn't get his usual "800 ml of packed cells" on the rest days either! It's a pity that he was still charged up on artificial testosterone in an attempt to counter it's natural depletion throughout the race, so aiding his day-to-day recovery!
Ahhh, but his hematocrit apparantly went up during the Tour.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/20 ... andis.htmlFckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:aurelio wrote:Timoid. wrote:Maybe. The word is that Landis didn't get his usual "800 ml of packed cells" on the rest days either! It's a pity that he was still charged up on artificial testosterone in an attempt to counter it's natural depletion throughout the race, so aiding his day-to-day recovery!
Ahhh, but his hematocrit apparantly went up during the Tour.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/20 ... andis.html
That is hardly 'natural' in a stage race is it? The quote I read stated that Landis didn't get the blood pack which was due just before the stage to Morzine, with the rider saying that because of this his ride was truly amazing. He may well have got a few "packed cells' earlier on in the race.
I've seen the story you link to before. I found this bit particularly interesting!
“Clinger told me that while he was racing in 2002 on the United States Postal Service Pro Cycling Team he used HGH, testosterone and EPO along with Floyd Landis. David told me, and I quote, 'Landis used more HGH than anyone he had ever witnessed before. He would use entire vials of HGH and he is crazy.' ”0 -
aurelio wrote:iainf72 wrote:aurelio wrote:Timoid. wrote:Maybe. The word is that Landis didn't get his usual "800 ml of packed cells" on the rest days either! It's a pity that he was still charged up on artificial testosterone in an attempt to counter it's natural depletion throughout the race, so aiding his day-to-day recovery!
Ahhh, but his hematocrit apparantly went up during the Tour.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/20 ... andis.html
That is hardly 'natural' in a stage race is it? The quote I read stated that Landis didn't get the blood pack which was due just before the stage to Morzine, with the rider saying that because of this his ride was truly amazing. He may well have got a few "packed cells' earlier on in the race.
I've seen the story you link to before. I found this bit particularly interesting!
“Clinger told me that while he was racing in 2002 on the United States Postal Service Pro Cycling Team he used HGH, testosterone and EPO along with Floyd Landis. David told me, and I quote, 'Landis used more HGH than anyone he had ever witnessed before. He would use entire vials of HGH and he is crazy.' ”
That would explain the forehead and chin alright.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0