custom STEEL vs TiTanium

Slukecp
Slukecp Posts: 16
edited June 2007 in Workshop
I want to get an audux bike that is as light as possible so when stripped i can race but i can also lightly tour. After thinking i had a grand to spend i could not find much that really flicked my switch. On further research it seems the best thing to do is to save further for around the 1600 bracket. For this price i think you can get a lovely british made custom steel bike. Mercian, bob Jackson, roberts... etc etc...... OR i could go for one of the lower end titanium bikes. Lower end is still no bad thing though. bikes like enigma, sunday (shame they dont do audux as look very nice) or burls.... these bikes have lifetime warranty so still very very reliable. So basically it seems like it would be a choice between a more exciting material and lighter against steel but made into a custom fit...
Opinions please. Also does anyone have any experience of enigma bikes?
Thanks.
sluke

Comments

  • gundersen
    gundersen Posts: 586
    No I don't have a Enigma.

    I have a Tommasini steel frame and a Litespeed titanium frame.
    Both racing frames.
    I prefer the steel frame and use it as a racing frame , while the titanium frame is used as a commuter.
  • JWSurrey
    JWSurrey Posts: 1,173
    Condor Fratello?
    I did day 1 on the Tour of Wessex on mine - great bike.

    They also do a Gran Fondo titanium ride.
    The Fratello is usually available for test rides in the shop - by pre-arrangement - as are most of the models.
  • graemetherunner
    graemetherunner Posts: 239
    The burls Ti frames ar a custom fit just like his steel offerings so no compromise in the ti v steel decision. Best thing is to start talking to some of the builders, you'll soon decide.
  • bloatercp
    bloatercp Posts: 18
    Hi Sluke. Burls do both steel and titanium frames in custom options. You'll get very good customer service from Burls, but then I am biased because I've got two frames from Burls and am more than happy with everything. Check out the site (www.burls.co.uk). No point throwing away another 600 quid for something that is 'supposed' to be better... Burls frames are exceptional value for money.

    Burls had a couple of audax frames in when I was last there... you'd be nuts not to check them out...
  • benanza
    benanza Posts: 6
    Try Van Nicholas for quality Ti frames, custom for a little more, can order online or from one of their UK dealers such as Fat Birds. I've got a road frame of theirs and it's been a dream.
  • McBain_v1
    McBain_v1 Posts: 5,237
    I have an Enigma Esprit and think it is fantastic [:D] It was a close call between my Enigma or a custom Reynolds 953 from Brian Rourke. The whole purchasing experience from Engima was a breeze and I found Jim to be very easy to contact and discuss things with. Equally though, so was Brian!

    <font size="1">
    What do I ride? Now that's an <b><font color="black">Enigma</b></font id="black"> </font id="size1">
    What do I ride? Now that's an Enigma!
  • Fresh Air Rider
    Fresh Air Rider Posts: 161
    Cycling+ magazine are doing a group test of light tourers this month and the Van Nic came out top I think.
  • benanza
    benanza Posts: 6
    Also forgot to mention that with the Van Nic lifetime guarantee, if you decide that you want to sell your frame you can send it back to them for a check over and if they are happy that it's ok they will re-issue the guarantee to your buyer. That is a sweet deal in anyone's book and adds loads of residual value.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    IF it's the right size, you won't find much better than this even if you do spend 3 or 4 times what it is likely to sell for!

    On th'ebay:

    King of Mercia Touring. 531C, Campagnolo, Shimano

    Usual disclaimer.

    d.j.
    "Like a true nature's child,
    We were born,
    Born to drink mild"
  • TRcp
    TRcp Posts: 418
    Interestingly, the all steel Salsa frameset in this months C+ test is the same weight as the Titanium / carbon VN. Probably because the Salsa uses caliper brakes and therefore gets away with lighter stays, etc. It was also the closest to a pure road bike experience according to the report.
    However, as a general guide a plaind gauge Ti frame (almost all of the affordable makes) will be about the same weight as a top quality steel equivalent (Columbus Life, Deda EOM 16.5, etc) at about 1500 to 1600 grams.
    So wheight is not a consideration.
    Steel has a much hugher modulus of elascticity, so will be stiffer for the equivalent weight - if that is an issue.
    Well looked after a steel frame will last a couple of decades or more, and a lifetime warrantly is only as good as the solvency of the company - so durability is not really an issue.
    Either option sounds good, though I think I would rather buy from Brian Rourke and choose the colour...
  • Noodley
    Noodley Posts: 1,725
    Sluke, I am in a similar position re getting my hands on a new audax/light tour bike and am currently favouring Paul Hewitt Cheviot SE which comes in at œ1099. Maybe worth a look?
  • TRcp
    TRcp Posts: 418
    The Cheviot has been well reviewed, but a frameset with caliper brakes (the Cheviot has cantis) will always be lighter.
  • Slukecp
    Slukecp Posts: 16
    The more i think about it i think its got to be a british made custom steel bike. with Reynolds 853 it will only be fractionally heavier than titanium. But its steel and it can be mended anywhere round the world. at the moment i am fancying mercian? has anyone had any dealings with them or would someone recommend bob jackson, rourke, or roberts or others in particular???
  • stebbo
    stebbo Posts: 458
    I have dealt with Mercian and they are very very good indeed. Highly recommended. I have a custom 725 Training bike and it is brilliant. wouldnt change it for all the tea in China

    Stuart Stebbings
    Its the rider, not the equipment.
    Stuart Stebbings
    Its the rider, not the equipment.
  • Spinacilight
    Spinacilight Posts: 1,738
    I've visited the Mercian shop a few times and was quite tempted, some of their lugless stuff is awesome. From personal experience, I'd give Bob Jacksons a miss if I were you. My dealings with them were not a disaster but were a disappointment and I really can't recommend them.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    "Reynolds 853 .... can be mended anywhere round the world."

    Can it?

    d.j.
    "Like a true nature's child,
    We were born,
    Born to drink mild"
  • The Raucous AUK
    The Raucous AUK Posts: 90
    I'm having a think about custom steel v. titanium myself. With Ti my budget will only run to 'plain guage' tubing (VN Yukon or Chinook) but does this affect the ride quality? It hardly affects the weight!

    For custom steel then I'd consider Dave Yates, Mercian and Roberts.
  • Tom753
    Tom753 Posts: 737
    "Reynolds 853 .... can be mended anywhere round the world."

    Obviously only a framebuilder can do a proper repair, but I would have thought getting a bodge job good enough to get you going would be easier if your frame is made from steel.

    <font color="black"><div align="right"><i><font size="1"><font face="Comic Sans MS"> My fixed bike </font id="Comic Sans MS"></font id="size1"></i></div id="right"></font id="black">
  • graemetherunner
    graemetherunner Posts: 239
    As has previously been mentioned on this forum 'plain gauge' Ti is anything but plain - infact in 99% of cases its superior to butted. This is due to the fact that 99% of Ti tubes are butted by a grinding process that does nothing for the integrity of the tube. The only company I'm aware of that makes in my opinion 'true' butted Ti tubes is reynolds and the price for just the tubeset is more than many frames.

    I've just spent a few hours this weekend on a ride swaping between a steel and a Ti frame... the Ti frame weighed in at 1350g & the steel 1548g, both used reynolds composite forks. The the Ti had centaur & the steel Duraace. Had it been possible to blindfold me, other than the difference in groupset, I probibly wouldn't have been able to tell the difference.
  • papercorn2000
    papercorn2000 Posts: 4,517
    For custom Ti, try http://www.xacd.com.cn/index1.htm . These guys make the bikes for Setavento http://www.setavento.com/ but for about 1/2 what you would pay.

    There's a few people on here who have them and they seem to be pretty happy with the quality of the build. As a bonus, there are no decals involved so you get a nice plain finish.

    God told me to skin you alive.
    http://www.ekroadclub.co.uk/
    God told me to skin you alive.
    http://www.ekroadclub.co.uk/
  • KeithG
    KeithG Posts: 1,010
    "its steel and it can be mended anywhere round the world"
    another problem with a round-the-world tourer is that it will be built to carry lots of luggage and stand rough treatment.
    really your lightweight Audax style road bike will be a little too light and flexible to comfortably carry lots of gear. It'll have braze-ons for a rack etc but my lightweight (Reynolds 753) custom built Audax is alarmingly bendy with a big load when I honk uphills (it's a joy unloaded though) and my 520 steel tourer is a beast but cheerfully carries tent and the kitchen sink over all sorts of terrain.
    decide whether you want to loaded tour or not imho.
  • greg roche
    greg roche Posts: 124
    Just a quick note - i assume people (referring to the different methods of butting) are talking about a machined butting process (effectivley machining material out of the way!) and extruding. Reynolds are certainly not the only company that uses the superior extrusion technique - we do too and i've seen plenty of other tube sets from other manufacturers that are also extruded.

    However, as already stated, plain guage tubing can ride fantastically anyway and may even add to the ride quality. We use butting selectively because for all that it can add sparkle, it can also add flex and inaccuracy. Certainly don't get carried away with teh need for a butted tube....

    Greg

    www.sundaybicycles.co.uk
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    I can't remember thwe last time I heard that someone had to have a frame mended "anywhere in the world....."


    My custom Bertoletti

    Lance

    Helmet cam downhill action
  • pieinthesky
    pieinthesky Posts: 417
    I have an Enigma Etap which is their "touring model" though it is more of an Audax machine with light touring ability.

    I have toured (with rear panniers only) on a steel 631 Audax bike, though lovely to ride and comfortable unloaded it was out of its depth with panniers. It wobbled like mad uphill and got scary at speed downhill. It was just not stiff enough to cope with the extra loads and forces generated by the panniers.

    The Etap is as comfortable as the steel frame, is significantly lighter and significantly stiffer. I have not yet ridden it loaded but would suggest that it would handle panniers, much better than my steel bike.

    Coupled with a Racelight T fork and 57mm brakes it will take 28mm tyres + guards with ease. Also look at the VN Yukon which looks very similar.
  • pieinthesky
    pieinthesky Posts: 417
    If you are concerned about the weight beware of figures on the Enigma website. My frame was about 10% overweight.
  • graemetherunner
    graemetherunner Posts: 239
    Greg,
    I'd be interested to know of where you source your mandril butted Ti tubes as well as other manufacturers that you say you've seen.
    many thanks
    Graeme

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