Any Pro Cyclists who haven't taken EPO?

OffTheBackAdam
OffTheBackAdam Posts: 1,869
edited August 2007 in Pro race
Well, any of you?[V]
Zabel's 'fessed-up[B)], Riis has just admitted it too[B)], so any of you actually rode "clean"[?]
It's actually no great surprise with Riis, going from OK domestique to TdF mountains' monster and winner in one bound.

Remember that you are an Englishman and thus have won first prize in the lottery of life.
Remember that you are an Englishman and thus have won first prize in the lottery of life.

Comments

  • campagchris
    campagchris Posts: 773
    I was surprised in Zabel,Riis and the others No.Bet theres a few more sweating bricks now.
  • Autobus Straggler
    Autobus Straggler Posts: 47
    It has trully been a very sad couple of days for the sport. Riis was the guy everyone liked, but now i am not so sure. He sat his possible double winner down last year at the TdF wanting to be above board, the entire time, he knew he had cheated? Its hypocrasy. Once again, the call for amnesty should go out, or slackers like us should be placed in the pro peloton, or we should just let everyone boost their oxygen ratios, the one with the best doctor wins! any way you look at it, our sport is running out of options.

    Give me pave or give me death!
    Give me pave or give me death!
  • drenkrom
    drenkrom Posts: 1,062
    Were you guys really that surprised? Everyone knew about Riis years ago. He didn't get the moniker "Mr. 60 percent" with his school grades. We all knew about Festina. The Spanish teams fled the Tour in 1998, supposedly in "protest", just when they were sure they wouldn't have to go through customs to get home. Doping was structured in most all the top teams of the time. Zabel did surprise me, but the depth of his doping has nothing to do with that of Riis.

    When you clean up, the crap's gotta come out at some point. It casts doubts about what these guys now running teams have tought the youngsters, but it does give the example that if you cheat, one day or another it's going to catch up to you and all you achievements will be pretty much for nothing. Riis giving back the yellow jersey is the perfect example that gains ill gotten will at some point be lost.

    JC
  • Stark.
    Stark. Posts: 108
    I don't suppose anyone should be that shocked to hear that this or that rider doped in the past. But Zabel did come as a bit of a surprise.

    Maybe it just goes to show that even the most strong-willed can be persuaded by the "if everyone else is doing it, I might as well too" argument.

    It may have been another few depressing days for the sport, but at least we appear to be moving away from the deny doping at all costs mentality. That has to be a good thing.
  • Melpro
    Melpro Posts: 35
    Although I'm sad to say it, I now just assume that all pro cyclists have doped or do dope. I know that is harsh for those that race clean (if there are any)!

    Unfortunately all the new confessions no longer result in me feeling absolutely gutted and let down, instead I just think 'oh that's how they won such and such'.

    I seem to have become an unintentional cynic and that makes me unhappy.
  • Brian B
    Brian B Posts: 2,071
    Greg Lemond - Quite outspoken about doping and not afraid to accuse others in his era which to me seems like he has no skeletons in his cupboard.
    Brian B.
  • mandie
    mandie Posts: 218
    Most Pro's who raced prior to 1990 wouldn't have used EPO, other substances possibly but not EPO.

    David Millar said in an interview he did a few weeks ago on Radio Scotland, that without accusing anyone of doping, the only ridere in the peleton that he would stake his life on being completly clean was Bradley McGee.
    We\'ll kick against the darkness \'till it bleeds daylight
  • squired
    squired Posts: 1,153
    The fact that certain riders make massive jumps in performance when they get involved in doping is a clear sign to me that not everyone is doing it. Look at Guitterez in the Giro last year. Out of nowhere a man of his size was suddenly climbing with the best. Either everyone else was using inferior drugs, or maybe there are actually quite a few clean riders.

    I also look at guys who go from super good to average the next season (maybe after a team change) as those who might have gone clean. Obviously there are other factors. Some might argue that Mayo was possibly on something in his early years, but clearly he hasn't got the head for handling pressure, and that has hampered his performances. I think the same is possibly true with Rujano who is potentially the next here today gone tomorrow rider. I still hope that he will recapture the form of a couple of years ago, but the signs certainly aren't there at the moment. In his case something was clearly wrong given the way he left Quickstep so soon after joining.
  • mangaman
    mangaman Posts: 704
    It has trully been a very sad couple of days for the sport. Riis was the guy everyone liked

    Are you sure about this one :wink:
  • mangaman
    mangaman Posts: 704
    By the way shouldn't this be in the pharmacy

    I'm against all these sub-fora of Race but while they're here we may as well use them?
  • jimmythecuckoo
    jimmythecuckoo Posts: 4,712
    Heh :D another former Procycling forumite has reared his head!!!

    Hi Adam!
    http://fendrieneu.home.blog
    My blog and pod...
    Beers of Belgium Cycling Club UK
  • OffTheBackAdam
    OffTheBackAdam Posts: 1,869
    jimmythecuckoo wrote:
    Heh :D another former Procycling forumite has reared his head!!!

    Hi Adam!
    Haven't you missed the word "Ugly" out of that sentance Mr Cuckoo? :wink:
    Well, I had to go somewhere to continue spounting pearls of wisdom.
    Remember that you are an Englishman and thus have won first prize in the lottery of life.
  • notanotherhill
    notanotherhill Posts: 137
    Im not so sure about pre 1990 riders not using EPO mandie, did you not see the reports there a few years ago that allegedly put a certain Mr Roche in very close proximity to EPO use as early as 86?
  • OffTheBackAdam
    OffTheBackAdam Posts: 1,869
    notanotherhill wrote:
    Im not so sure about pre 1990 riders not using EPO mandie, did you not see the reports there a few years ago that allegedly put a certain Mr Roche in very close proximity to EPO use as early as 86?

    Impossible, as the first human clinical trials for EPO weren't started until after then. It wasn't commercially available until 89-90.
    Remember that you are an Englishman and thus have won first prize in the lottery of life.
  • nick hanson
    nick hanson Posts: 1,655
    mandie wrote:
    Most Pro's who raced prior to 1990 wouldn't have used EPO, other substances possibly but not EPO.

    David Millar said in an interview he did a few weeks ago on Radio Scotland, that without accusing anyone of doping, the only ridere in the peleton that he would stake his life on being completly clean was Bradley McGee.
    That's a bit worrying,when he's been best mates with stu o'grady,& LA,to name but two
    so many cols,so little time!
  • The Dr
    The Dr Posts: 21
    Stu O'Grady??? Strange name to add to that list
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    I read only the 5 teams Bouygues Telecom, AG2R Prévoyance, Credit Agricole, Française des Jeux and Predictor - Lotto have clean sheets in the season 2007 as far as riders go. The other 15 Pro Tour teams have had 1-4 riders convicted or accused of doping during the current season.

    Some of the above clean teams have riders who were implicated in doping in their pasts, e.g. the aging Laurent Brochard, once with Festina now with Bouygues Telecom, but if like him they've served their sentence, their presence in a team doesn't count against how the team is judged.

    Of the 5 clean teams, the latter three each have someone on their staff - manager, driver, etc - who has been implicated in doping in his own past.
  • shannyla
    shannyla Posts: 28
    No.

    That is all.

    Actually there's more: a EPO protocol that is based around microdoping and is followed accurately and with a modicum of good luck is so difficult to detect and returns such noticable gains that I would be amazed if any rider that can afford that isn't doing it, and they must be allergic to winning. Likewise autologous blood doping, which has even less risk of detection if carried out in a halfway competent manner.

    My god, I've got cynical...
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,124
    OffTheBackAdam wrote:
    Impossible, as the first human clinical trials for EPO weren't started until after then. It wasn't commercially available until 89-90.
    Unlikely rather than impossible I'd say. One Mauro Gianetti almost died at the Tour of Romandy in the late 1990s due taking a drug that wasn't yet approved by the relevant drugs authorities! :shock:
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    andyp wrote:
    OffTheBackAdam wrote:
    Impossible, as the first human clinical trials for EPO weren't started until after then. It wasn't commercially available until 89-90.
    Unlikely rather than impossible I'd say. One Mauro Gianetti almost died at the Tour of Romandy in the late 1990s due taking a drug that wasn't yet approved by the relevant drugs authorities! :shock:

    Exactly. There are rumours of a "new" EPO at the moment that's doing the rounds in the pro peleton. It's currently undergoing Phase II clinical trials, meaning it's a still a very long way from being licenced. Similarly, some riders think nothing of using veterinary products, stolen medicines sold on by the mafia, or hormones made in unlicenced copycat labs in China.
  • LangerDan
    LangerDan Posts: 6,132
    andyp wrote:
    OffTheBackAdam wrote:
    Impossible, as the first human clinical trials for EPO weren't started until after then. It wasn't commercially available until 89-90.
    Unlikely rather than impossible I'd say. One Mauro Gianetti almost died at the Tour of Romandy in the late 1990s due taking a drug that wasn't yet approved by the relevant drugs authorities! :shock:

    Not quite true. Gianetti nearly went tits-up trying to use Perfluorocarbon in his blood stream to increase its blood carrying capacity. PFCs have been approved for human use for a number of years before Mauro tried it, but only for use in short periods during heart surgery and in conjunction with breathing oxygen. Injection into "healthy" humans was never an approved use, before or after.
    'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'
  • notanotherhill
    notanotherhill Posts: 137
    Not doubting you on this one offthebackadam, but would be interested in knowing where you got your info from, just so that i can read it myself
  • OllyBianchi
    OllyBianchi Posts: 89
    It's possible to wonder if there are any clean endurance athletes in the world... EPO is one of the best selling drugs in the world and it only has a limited clinical use.

    Even if we assume that most pro road cyclists, MTBers, trackies, crossers and a good smattering of espoirs are using it, that's probably a global worldwide market of around 1000 people - not enough to make a huge seller out of an obsure drug or to fund the big smuggling and dealing operations in the background. However if you add in running, football, american football, rugby, cross-country skiiing, motor racing, bi and tri athalon, tennis and apparently golf then you have the numbers you need.

    I'm sure we can all think of clear examples of EPO use from other sports - young tennis players able to run for five hours, suspicously rubbish performances from marathon runners at big competitions showing all the hallmarks of a red blood cell crash because they came off a big EPO course too close to the event, football teams who still looking fresh at the end of the shoot out...

    There is a quote, not well reported, from Arsene Wenger, saying that he's bought players from Italy whose blood looks very strange - he said he made them rest before even starting training. Dr Ferrari and Prof Conconi work with Juve, if memory serves...
  • nick hanson
    nick hanson Posts: 1,655
    The Dr wrote:
    Stu O'Grady??? Strange name to add to that list
    Only drawing off the statement that he would only bet totally that brad Mcgee is 100% clean,& he's been good mates with quite q few riders including the two I've mentioned.Think about it,if you were a mate of his(& were a continental pro) & he didn't state you were,in his opinion,100% clean,how would you take that?
    so many cols,so little time!
  • rovers69
    rovers69 Posts: 32
    So at risk of being controversial..when will Lance be outed?
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,158
    rovers69 wrote:
    So at risk of being controversial..when will Lance be outed?

    Never, I'd say. And I can't see what good it would do. Most of his podium sharers have been busted, it would destroy the hope he gives cancer sufferers and he's not going to give his millions back.

    He's the past - the focus needs to be on the present and the future
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • xtrca
    xtrca Posts: 1
    Having worked as a mechanic for a men's North American Continental pro team, I was able to befriend many of the riders and I can assure you 100% that the whole team was clean. They would finnish mid pack at the larger events but not a trace of illegal substances were used by any. The pro tour however...hmm....suspect to say the less. 10% of the population has asthma...check the amount of pros on the pro tour with medical exemptions for sabutamol, medication for sports induced asthma.
  • mandie
    mandie Posts: 218
    nick hanson wrote:
    The Dr wrote:
    Stu O'Grady??? Strange name to add to that list
    Only drawing off the statement that he would only bet totally that brad Mcgee is 100% clean,& he's been good mates with quite q few riders including the two I've mentioned.Think about it,if you were a mate of his(& were a continental pro) & he didn't state you were,in his opinion,100% clean,how would you take that?

    Dave Millar was specifically asked about whether he was certain that Lance Armstrong was clean and he said that he could not be certain.

    I don't think that he was trying to accuse anyone specifically of doping, just stating that he couldn't be sure they were not.

    But let's face it, with the exceptions of himself, Freddie Maertins and now Patrick Sinkovitz (hope the spellings right) not a single cyclist or come to think of it any professional sportsperson has ever doped, that is if we believe their post conviction statements.
    We\'ll kick against the darkness \'till it bleeds daylight
  • Deuce
    Deuce Posts: 18
    If I remember correctly Juventus were found guilty in an Italian court of blood doping but won on appeal, their argument being not that it did nto happen but that it was not against the law in Italy at that time.

    I'm sure it is mentioned in Matt Rendell's "Death of Marco Pantani"

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