Really good brakes

Aux1
Aux1 Posts: 865
edited July 2007 in MTB general
I'd like to upgrade from Magura Julie to some really good brake... Something great, that will give all the power you need, that won't require great pressure on the levers, that won't make arms hurt... I feel I could go faster but it seems my brakes limit the ride, takes a lot of force to grip the levers enough to start stopping me properly, and it gets strenuous eventually. There are some nice trails that could be ridden much better if I could only slow down more efficiently before every turn or obstacle.

I looked a little on mtbr.com and saw that the Formula Oro K24 has really great reviews. I thought to upgrade the front brake only for the start, 180mm rotor, and keep the rear Julie. Do you guys think this would be a big difference? Because that's what I want, something really solid...

It's like my new fork, the old one was okay, but the new one feels so solid and I just go over everything with it, it simply feels right.

<font size="1">To clip or not to clip, that is the question. Whether tis nobler in the mind of men to suffer the dings and contusions of unclipp'd riding, or to bind thy feet against a sea of gnarly singletrack and by these contraptions, ride o'er them with ease. To clip... to slip no more, and by clipping to end the buttache and the thousand natural shocks that ryders are heir to; tis a consummation devoutly to be honed. No clip - to slip perchance to be thrashed most heinously...</font id="size1">

KTM Ultra Flite 2007
«1

Comments

  • to be honest the difference is not that much. i would keep the money in the back for the moment and get new rotors and adaptors and go to 180 F and R.

    the diference between the oros and the juiles at the dame size is not that much (yes there is a difference).

    if after having had 180(5) on the juiles and you still want less hand force then look at a different brake.

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  • Coolnick
    Coolnick Posts: 380
    Cheers for email......How are you getting on with your MX Pro forks then Aux1? Mine are bedding in just nice, love them!

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  • What brake pads are you using on your Julies Aux1? I'm trying to understand why your Julies aren't strong enough and that they're tiring you out. I've got some new ones on my bike and they're WAY strong enough for me. I think they perform more like motorbike brakes.

    I know Magura do two types of pads, Endurance 4.2 and Performance 4.1. Maybe a performance pad upgrade and a 180 rotor on the rear (Front is already 180) could save you a lot of dosh and solve your braking problems too?

    Still, if your mind is made up to change how about waiting for a set of the new shimano 2008 XT brakes with a claimed 20% greater stopping power?

    http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content ... deore.html

    Interestingly, it looks like the greatest name in braking is now making mountain bike brakes...

    http://www.brembo.com/ENG/Racing-Brakes/Mountain+Bikes/

    <center> <font color="black">Merlin Malt 4 </font id="black"></center>
  • Aux1
    Aux1 Posts: 865
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Coolnick</i>

    Cheers for email......How are you getting on with your MX Pro forks then Aux1? Mine are bedding in just nice, love them!

    http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/?op=list& ... rid=176616
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Yeah me too, that's just what I wanted, I stopped looking at catalogs drooling over Foxes, Rebas and the bunch lol and I just ride and enjoy how it works. There is still a little bit of resistance (probably by air seals) to the first half inch of travel, but less and less. People say that will go away when it beds in completely. And it simply feels right, sometimes it's best simply to keep the speed and just go over a bunch of roots instead of braking and avoiding, and this fork gives a feel like it handles it all without any problems. Now I just need the brakes that will perform as good and I'm set for anything! [8D]

    <font size="1">To clip or not to clip, that is the question. Whether tis nobler in the mind of men to suffer the dings and contusions of unclipp'd riding, or to bind thy feet against a sea of gnarly singletrack and by these contraptions, ride o'er them with ease. To clip... to slip no more, and by clipping to end the buttache and the thousand natural shocks that ryders are heir to; tis a consummation devoutly to be honed. No clip - to slip perchance to be thrashed most heinously...</font id="size1">

    KTM Ultra Flite 2007
  • Bighead
    Bighead Posts: 260
    Hi, on my winter bike I have some Formula Oro Puros which are like a blinged up version of the K24s. I really like them. They seem quite powerful to me but then again I don't weigh much and ride XC so I might not be the best person to ask.

    <h6><font color="red"><b>My Summer Ride </b></font id="red"><font color="red">Frame: Scott Scale Ltd | Fork: Pace RC39 | Shifters: XTR | Cranks: XTR | Rear Mech: XTR | Front Mech: XTR | Cassette: XT | Skewers: XTR | Pedals: Egg Beater Tripple Ti | Hubs: Chris King | Brakes: Formula B4SLs | Spokes: Sapim CX-Ray | Seat Post: Ritchey WCS Carbon | Handlebar: Easton EC70 | Saddle: Selle Italia SLR | Cables: Flying Snakes</font id="red">

    <font color="blue">My Winter Ride </font id="blue">Frame: Marin Indian Fire Trail | Fork: Manitou Skareb | Shifters: LX | Cranks: <b>XT</b> | Rear Mech: XT | Front Mech: XTR | Cassette: SRAM PC99 | Pedals: Egg Beater Candy | Brakes: Formula Oro Puro | Seat Post: Thomson Elite | Saddle: WTB | Cables: Nokons </h6>
  • Aux1
    Aux1 Posts: 865
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Red Panda</i>

    What brake pads are you using on your Julies Aux1? I'm trying to understand why your Julies aren't strong enough and that they're tiring you out. I've got some new ones on my bike and they're WAY strong enough for me. I think they perform more like motorbike brakes.

    I know Magura do two types of pads, Endurance 4.2 and Performance 4.1. Maybe a performance pad upgrade and a 180 rotor on the rear (Front is already 180) could save you a lot of dosh and solve your braking problems too?

    Still, if your mind is made up to change how about waiting for a set of the new shimano 2008 XT brakes with a claimed 20% greater stopping power?

    http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content ... deore.html

    Interestingly, it looks like the greatest name in braking is now making mountain bike brakes...

    http://www.brembo.com/ENG/Racing-Brakes/Mountain+Bikes/

    <center> <font color="black">Merlin Malt 4 </font id="black"></center>

    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Hmm, are you guys saying that all brakes with rotors of the same size have similar stopping power? There are no big differences, like a third stronger or something? I'm looking at my front rotor and it looks big and powerful, why shouldn't it be? [8)]

    Not sure of the pads, came on the bike. There's this Magura authorized service here, I'll go there later today and ask if they could somehow make a tune-up, put some badass pads or something to maximize performance...

    Also, they have 210 (!) mm rotors for the front, not sure but I think my fork wouldn't like it...

    <font size="1">To clip or not to clip, that is the question. Whether tis nobler in the mind of men to suffer the dings and contusions of unclipp'd riding, or to bind thy feet against a sea of gnarly singletrack and by these contraptions, ride o'er them with ease. To clip... to slip no more, and by clipping to end the buttache and the thousand natural shocks that ryders are heir to; tis a consummation devoutly to be honed. No clip - to slip perchance to be thrashed most heinously...</font id="size1">

    KTM Ultra Flite 2007
  • Aux1
    Aux1 Posts: 865
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Bighead</i>

    Hi, on my winter bike I have some Formula Oro Puros which are like a blinged up version of the K24s. I really like them. They seem quite powerful to me but then again I don't weigh much and ride XC so I might not be the best person to ask.

    <h6><font color="red"><b>My Summer Ride </b></font id="red"><font color="red">Frame: Scott Scale Ltd | Fork: Pace RC39 | Shifters: XTR | Cranks: XTR | Rear Mech: XTR | Front Mech: XTR | Cassette: XT | Skewers: XTR | Pedals: Egg Beater Tripple Ti | Hubs: Chris King | Brakes: Formula B4SLs | Spokes: Sapim CX-Ray | Seat Post: Ritchey WCS Carbon | Handlebar: Easton EC70 | Saddle: Selle Italia SLR | Cables: Flying Snakes</font id="red">

    <font color="blue">My Winter Ride </font id="blue">Frame: Marin Indian Fire Trail | Fork: Manitou Skareb | Shifters: LX | Cranks: <b>XT</b> | Rear Mech: XT | Front Mech: XTR | Cassette: SRAM PC99 | Pedals: Egg Beater Candy | Brakes: Formula Oro Puro | Seat Post: Thomson Elite | Saddle: WTB | Cables: Nokons </h6>
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Heh maybe I'm too heavy guy riding too fast on trails too steep? [:I]
    But mountains tend to be steep lol [:D]

    <font size="1">To clip or not to clip, that is the question. Whether tis nobler in the mind of men to suffer the dings and contusions of unclipp'd riding, or to bind thy feet against a sea of gnarly singletrack and by these contraptions, ride o'er them with ease. To clip... to slip no more, and by clipping to end the buttache and the thousand natural shocks that ryders are heir to; tis a consummation devoutly to be honed. No clip - to slip perchance to be thrashed most heinously...</font id="size1">

    KTM Ultra Flite 2007
  • orangechimp
    orangechimp Posts: 1,335
    Hayes nines, the 160's are said to be as good as most 180's, wooly hat shop are doing complete sets F & R for œ99 or there abouts. great brakes for a good price.

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  • <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
    Hmm, are you guys saying that all brakes with rotors of the same size have similar stopping power? There are no big differences, like a third stronger or something? I'm looking at my front rotor and it looks big and powerful, why shouldn't it be? [8)]

    Not sure of the pads, came on the bike. There's this Magura authorized service here, I'll go there later today and ask if they could somehow make a tune-up, put some badass pads or something to maximize performance...

    Also, they have 210 (!) mm rotors for the front, not sure but I think my fork wouldn't like it...
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
    I can't help thinking your pads need upgrading/renewing? It certainly sounds like your brakes aren't performing as they should.

    As you say Aux1 for 2007 it is possible to fit 210mm front rotors for the Julie and up to 190mm for the rear (with the new Magura adaptors). I can't help but wonder how they'd strengthen my bike's braking. Maybe when you got to the Magura service place you could get them to try your brakes out and see what they think.

    Have you tried any of your mate's bikes for their braking abilities? It would be good to compare yours with theirs eh, then you could buy from experience rather than trusting some varying reviews.

    I hope things go well for you at Magura later [:)]

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  • <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Aux1</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Bighead</i>

    Hi, on my winter bike I have some Formula Oro Puros which are like a blinged up version of the K24s. I really like them. They seem quite powerful to me but then again I don't weigh much and ride XC so I might not be the best person to ask.

    <h6><font color="red"><b>My Summer Ride </b></font id="red"><font color="red">Frame: Scott Scale Ltd | Fork: Pace RC39 | Shifters: XTR | Cranks: XTR | Rear Mech: XTR | Front Mech: XTR | Cassette: XT | Skewers: XTR | Pedals: Egg Beater Tripple Ti | Hubs: Chris King | Brakes: Formula B4SLs | Spokes: Sapim CX-Ray | Seat Post: Ritchey WCS Carbon | Handlebar: Easton EC70 | Saddle: Selle Italia SLR | Cables: Flying Snakes</font id="red">

    <font color="blue">My Winter Ride </font id="blue">Frame: Marin Indian Fire Trail | Fork: Manitou Skareb | Shifters: LX | Cranks: <b>XT</b> | Rear Mech: XT | Front Mech: XTR | Cassette: SRAM PC99 | Pedals: Egg Beater Candy | Brakes: Formula Oro Puro | Seat Post: Thomson Elite | Saddle: WTB | Cables: Nokons </h6>
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Heh maybe <b>I'm too heavy guy riding too fast on trails too steep? [:I]
    But mountains tend to be steep lol</b> [:D]

    <font size="1">To clip or not to clip, that is the question. Whether tis nobler in the mind of men to suffer the dings and contusions of unclipp'd riding, or to bind thy feet against a sea of gnarly singletrack and by these contraptions, ride o'er them with ease. To clip... to slip no more, and by clipping to end the buttache and the thousand natural shocks that ryders are heir to; tis a consummation devoutly to be honed. No clip - to slip perchance to be thrashed most heinously...</font id="size1">

    KTM Ultra Flite 2007
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Well in that case you need the hope moto v2 vented discs then.

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  • Aux1
    Aux1 Posts: 865
    Been there. They saw the brake was set up properly. Then they cleaned the rotors and the pads with some spray, wiped some black filth off the pads, and said it should be a bit better now. It feels quite alright in the city, but guess I'll have to wait 'til weekend to try it out in real conditions.

    They said my pads were over 50% spent, and if I'm still not satisfied I can try first new pads and then an upgrade, something like Louise. They said Louise has about 50% more stopping power, due to more efficient force transmission from lever to rotor and stuff. 50% more power sounds really good if true!

    If I decide to upgrade, I'll have to choose between Louise and Oro K24 because I can get those in local shops. Will see... But damn I like those K24 reviews on mtbr.com! [:p]

    <font size="1">To clip or not to clip, that is the question. Whether tis nobler in the mind of men to suffer the dings and contusions of unclipp'd riding, or to bind thy feet against a sea of gnarly singletrack and by these contraptions, ride o'er them with ease. To clip... to slip no more, and by clipping to end the buttache and the thousand natural shocks that ryders are heir to; tis a consummation devoutly to be honed. No clip - to slip perchance to be thrashed most heinously...</font id="size1">

    KTM Ultra Flite 2007
  • <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Bighead</i>

    Hi, on my winter bike I have some Formula Oro Puros which are like a blinged up version of the K24s. I really like them. They seem quite powerful to me but then again I don't weigh much and ride XC so I might not be the best person to ask.

    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Puros on your winter hack[:0] Suppose the ti bolts wont rust! Whats on your good bike? Brembos? [:)]

    Seriously, my mate struggled with 04 louise for ages, nothing worked, they were just pathetic. The newer ones are fine apparently. If you have gone through the usual fixes (clean,bleed,face,shim,new seals,pads) i reckon you need new brakes. Sorry.
  • Aux1
    Aux1 Posts: 865
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by stuartlangwilson</i>

    Seriously, my mate struggled with 04 louise for ages, nothing worked, they were just pathetic. The newer ones are fine apparently. If you have gone through the usual fixes (clean,bleed,face,shim,new seals,pads) i reckon you need new brakes. Sorry.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Well, have to try the current ones after cleaning. Then with fresh pads. If both fails, I'll upgrade. Front only, hope that's OK. Rear Julie can still lock the wheel anytime.

    Currently looking at:

    Avid Juicy 7
    Formula Oro K24
    Magura Louise

    and hmmm...
    Avid Code (185mm)
    These look awesome! Haha maybe I'd even be glad to pay if I could find a brake that will give even power to spare without pain in the hands.

    <font size="1">To clip or not to clip, that is the question. Whether tis nobler in the mind of men to suffer the dings and contusions of unclipp'd riding, or to bind thy feet against a sea of gnarly singletrack and by these contraptions, ride o'er them with ease. To clip... to slip no more, and by clipping to end the buttache and the thousand natural shocks that ryders are heir to; tis a consummation devoutly to be honed. No clip - to slip perchance to be thrashed most heinously...</font id="size1">

    KTM Ultra Flite 2007
  • I'll second hayes nines... seem to work well good on my giant.

    one of my bikes Scott scale 20
    Another one 2004 klein attitude xv
    and finally 2006 Giant anthem2
  • Aux1
    Aux1 Posts: 865
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Blundell</i>

    I'll second hayes nines... seem to work well good on my giant.

    one of my bikes Scott scale 20
    Another one 2004 klein attitude xv
    and finally 2006 Giant anthem2
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Will consider if I find them somewhere!

    (p.s. sorry guys for boring you with all this, just trying to find a brake that has 101% of the power I need. Just as I found my fork which rocks... [:)])

    <font size="1">To clip or not to clip, that is the question. Whether tis nobler in the mind of men to suffer the dings and contusions of unclipp'd riding, or to bind thy feet against a sea of gnarly singletrack and by these contraptions, ride o'er them with ease. To clip... to slip no more, and by clipping to end the buttache and the thousand natural shocks that ryders are heir to; tis a consummation devoutly to be honed. No clip - to slip perchance to be thrashed most heinously...</font id="size1">

    KTM Ultra Flite 2007
  • I've owned deore555, hope mini, avid 5 and 7 and formula puros, The formulas are way better than any of the others. Had a good long shot of a demo bike with Hope v2 vented rotors and they were very impressive if a little ugly imo.
  • guilliano
    guilliano Posts: 5,495
    I borrowed a Giant Reign with a 180mm Hayes 9 up front and 160mm at the back. I thought they were nowhere near as powerful as my Juicy 5 185mm on the Fisher. I'd give it a couple of months til the new XT range comes out. We had a Shimano rep in the shop on Saturday with the new XT 160mm on his bike and they are better than my brakes, so the 180mm version will be a stunner!

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  • Aux1
    Aux1 Posts: 865
    Update:
    I noticed my Magura Performance pads were already spent! So now I'm gonna try new pads to see if they improve performance. I'd be happiest if I didn't have to buy new brakes [:)]! I can get Magura or SwissStop pads for my brakes. Which ones do you think are better?

    P.s. some guys suggested me to brake in strong bursts on descents rather than squeezing brakes moderately most of the time, to reduce heat. Gotta get used to that, because you accelerate pretty hard when you let go lol [:D]

    <font size="1">To clip or not to clip, that is the question. Whether tis nobler in the mind of men to suffer the dings and contusions of unclipp'd riding, or to bind thy feet against a sea of gnarly singletrack and by these contraptions, ride o'er them with ease. To clip... to slip no more, and by clipping to end the buttache and the thousand natural shocks that ryders are heir to; tis a consummation devoutly to be honed. No clip - to slip perchance to be thrashed most heinously...</font id="size1">

    KTM Ultra Flite 2007
  • Aux1
    Aux1 Posts: 865
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by guilliano</i>

    I borrowed a Giant Reign with a 180mm Hayes 9 up front and 160mm at the back. I thought they were nowhere near as powerful as my Juicy 5 185mm on the Fisher. I'd give it a couple of months til the new XT range comes out. We had a Shimano rep in the shop on Saturday with the new XT 160mm on his bike and they are better than my brakes, so the 180mm version will be a stunner!

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/guilliano/
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by stuartlangwilson</i>

    I've owned deore555, hope mini, avid 5 and 7 and formula puros, The formulas are way better than any of the others. Had a good long shot of a demo bike with Hope v2 vented rotors and they were very impressive if a little ugly imo.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Ok this looks like some good advice, if new pads don't help I'll consider Formulas or new XT! [;)]

    <font size="1">To clip or not to clip, that is the question. Whether tis nobler in the mind of men to suffer the dings and contusions of unclipp'd riding, or to bind thy feet against a sea of gnarly singletrack and by these contraptions, ride o'er them with ease. To clip... to slip no more, and by clipping to end the buttache and the thousand natural shocks that ryders are heir to; tis a consummation devoutly to be honed. No clip - to slip perchance to be thrashed most heinously...</font id="size1">

    KTM Ultra Flite 2007
  • eelboy
    eelboy Posts: 3,628
    xt's are great brakes. I have the 05 ones and they are spot on. They are pretty much silent, the stopping power is awesome (though i do have the 200 n odd mm disk upgrades on mine). Highly reccomended.
  • magnus
    magnus Posts: 127
    Formulas are awesome brakes. I have the k24's on my race bike and magura marta sls on my training bike. The oros far outperform the maguras.
  • clarkson
    clarkson Posts: 1,641
    i have formula b4's pn my xc bike which are ok when they're st up properly, but my avid 5's on my enduro are far better. nicer feel, more power and modulation.
    I said hit the brakes not the tree!!

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  • Aux1
    Aux1 Posts: 865
    Ok thank you all for the replies! :)

    I'm going to pick my K18's up tomorrow if all goes well... Would have thaken the XTs as they are cheaper and reportedly very powerful but Formula is somehow a bit more bling! :D

    Unfortunately I'm not taking the bike to the shop, so I'll have to install them at home by myself. I wonder can it be done in under an hour as I have a ride scheduled tomorrow afternoon and I'd really like to try them out the same day!

    So please tell me if I got it right...

    1) Unscrew old rotors with Torx T25, unscrew old calipers and remove the levers from the bars

    2) Apply blue loctite to new screws and screw the new rotors to the hubs in a star fashion

    3) Put the levers to the bars and lead the hoses over the frame/fork

    4) Screw the calipers to frame/fork with loctited bolts gently, press lever, center the caliper to rotor and then screw the bolts tightly

    Is it all there is to it?
  • jib74
    jib74 Posts: 12
    I would go swiss pads they have gotten some rave reviews.On the new brake side have you had a look at the hope mini m4's,fantastic stopping power for little effort or money is not a limiting factor hope also do the mini pro which along with the power needed looks the nuts.
  • daxion
    daxion Posts: 104
    I bought some Avid Codes recently, absolutely the dogs danglies. Lots of modulation and amazing stopping power sizes 160/180/203 - I have the 203
    Dave - Spin instructor
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  • Aux1
    Aux1 Posts: 865
    Looked at Code but I've been told not to go over 180mm rotors and 2 piston calipers with my xc bike...

    Btw what about the brake installation? Doesn't seem complicated, can I do it without a problem on my own?
  • daxion
    daxion Posts: 104
    Yes, good advice unless the forks are designed for big rotors. Avids are very strong, mine are fitted to RS Totems which only take 203
    Dave - Spin instructor
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  • daxion
    daxion Posts: 104
    forgot to say, easy to fit brakes.
    Most are pre bled and should fit straight to the bike,
    Dave - Spin instructor
    ________________
  • jib74
    jib74 Posts: 12
    juicy 7's are also class stoppers,not to different to avid c's except the carbon.
    Which adds the rite touch but why not look at the juicy fives's.
    I run an xc bike with a 185 j5 up front with a 160 on the back and i've never had any trouble stopping in the wet or dry or monsoon(recent weather accounted for).
    Each brake performs in a different way just depends if your a catious braker or an i'll leave it to the last second kind of braker as to what you go for.
  • glasgowdan
    glasgowdan Posts: 155
    I'll further the suggestion of XT, with 180 rotor up front. Luvverly...

    Current XT's are damn fine and a lot cheaper than the new ones will be.
    Crushing the symptoms