FAO Hamish (and other DSLR aficionados)

geeteewmb · June 2007

Whilst I'm not at your standard, I do enjoy using my point and shoot on a regular basis and feel that I'd make use of a more capable camera with far more in the way of manual controls.

So after flirting with the idea of a DSLR, probably for about 3 years now, my wife has said she'd like to buy me one for my birthday.

I've been researching the decision for the last month or two and think I've settled on a Nikon D80 with a 18-135mm kit lens.

I did consider the Nikon D40X, but for a variety of reasons think the D80 would be a better option over the long haul.

Any advice you (or anyone else) want to offer on my selection before I take the plunge? [:)]

"Hopefully everyone will be waiting for me at the top of the climb/descent/flat bit"

Unknown · June 2007

No doubt here that hamish IS the man for this stuff i would recommend a few things.

The D80 is a great camera, but so is the D50.
you can get a nikon d50 18-70 lens kit cheaper and IF your looking to shoot MTB stuff get a 50mm F1.8 prime lens for œ75 ish.
this would be a better starter package (the 18-70 is rated as a better lens than the 135) and the 50mm prime would give you an excellent light and fast lens for MTB shots.

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Unknown · June 2007

someone was selling them cheap i'll look at home for you if you e-mail me your e-mail addy..

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Hamishwmb · June 2007

Okay. I'm typing this off the top of my head so apologies for any inaccuracies:

#1 - you don't have to just buy Nikon (although it's the best [;)])
#2 - as with buying bikes, intended use and price range are what matter
#3 - as with buying bike, ergonomics are important so try before you buy

D40X and D80 eh? Okay so both are newish technology and 10MP. I find the D40X a bit of a strange camera as basically it's a more expensive D40 with bigger files, which take up more room on the memory card and slow your PC down if you're doing any PP (post processing - i.e. adjusting brightness or colours, cropping, etc). It gives nice vivid pictures straight out of camera, is easy to use and is small and light. The big downside is that it won't auto focus with a lot of prime lenses (i.e. not zoom lenses). Some of the prime lenses are very good bargains and give stunningly sharp images.

The D80 is a bit bigger and has more adjustable controls and lots more focus points. It also has a bigger viewfinder which can be very useful. It auto focusses with prime lenses and it's also more expensive.

Fozzy suggests the D50, which is also a very good camera. 6MP is more than enough - you don't need more unless you crop a lot. I've printed 30" x 20" images from my D50 and they look great. It's light and has more focus points than D40 but less than D80. It's pretty cheap at the moment as it's "old" but that doesn't mean it'll suddenly start taking worse pictures. The main problem with the D50 is that you need to go through the menu to change a lot of features - not a problem if you're not trying to change things rapidly though. I used to use a D50 and waited until the D80 was released before I bought my D200. I didn't go for it as it didn't quite have the features I was after and wasn't that much better than the D50 IMHO.

All have auto modes IIRC so you can just point and shoot to start and then get more adventurous as you get to know the camera and understand what it can do. It really depends on what you plan to use it for and how much you want to spend.

If you're going to be taking lots of family pics with plenty indoors then a D50 and 18-70 DX lens will give great pics and you can use the extra cash to buy a nice flashgun such as the SB-600. There will always be newer and better bodies to upgrade to but the rest of the kit is an investment.

--

"Hamish, that is one of the most sensible posts i've read on this forum!" - Futureboy 21/05/2007 06:31:46 

Some of my biking photos flickr - The Flying Pie my bike

geeteewmb · June 2007

As I mentioned, I have been researching this a fair bit already.

I looked at what kind of photos I take already - about 80% are outdoor: landscapes/scenery and, moving forward, a lot more MTBing in the type of places we ride, Hamish.

I also thought about the fact that a 10mp camera, especially in RAW format, will take up a lot of resource on a PC but I built a new PC at the end of last year and am confident it could handle it.

Lastly, I've already been handling and trying A LOT of cameras over the last 10 weeks or so. As I have huge hands, many of the cameras I seriously considered didn't feel that comfortable in my hands, e.g. Canon EOS 400D and the Sony A100k. I also preferred the menu and button layout of the Nikon's. It eventually came down to a choice between the D40X and the D80 and again, the D40X just didn't feel as comfortable in my hands. I deal with a lot of professional photographers in my job and have been picking their brains. Most are either Canon or Nikon users and they said one of the most important things is that the camera feels comfortable in your hands, as that way you're likely to use it more. To be fair, I haven't tried the D50 so I can't comment on that. I suppose the down side of the bigger camera is more weight to lug around, but it's not an awful lot more.

Regards the price - I think I've sourced the D80 with the 18-135 lens for œ609 all in. I don't want to spend money for the sake of it, but I'm fortunate that I can afford a camera in the D80 price bracket.

So I'm not asking you to make a decision for me, but I guess I kind of am. Given my responses to your points about price, use and feel - what do you think?

"Hopefully everyone will be waiting for me at the top of the climb/descent/flat bit"

Hamishwmb · June 2007

You're doing your research, certainly. It's about feel. You'll use a comfy camera much more. The D80 and D50 are similarly sized, I think, although the D80 might be a bit heavier. If you've narrowed it down to the D40X and D80 then I'd recommend the D80.

One big piece of advice - don't pick up the D200 unless you really want to buy it. It's just in another league in terms of feel and comfort.

I believe the 18-135 lens is okay, but it might be worth looking at the prices for the body only and other packages, especially if you don't need the extra length in the lens. I highly recommend the Tamron 17-50 f2.8 which is my most used lens these days - it's great for scenery, biking and portait use.

--

"Hamish, that is one of the most sensible posts i've read on this forum!" - Futureboy 21/05/2007 06:31:46 

Some of my biking photos flickr - The Flying Pie my bike

Unknown · June 2007

again just backing up Hamish's comments you "don't need" 10mp and you need a decent PC to deal with the RAW files, i to found the others to be small in the hand and awkward to hold.

I know you mailed me with your addy, you can buy a D50 and 18-55mm for only ¶œ299 and with the rest of your money you can get some excellent sigma lenses and maybe even a Nikon prime.

The Nikon is from cameraworld.co.uk

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geeteewmb · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Hamish

One big piece of advice - don't pick up the D200 unless you really want to buy it. It's just in another league in terms of feel and comfort.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I'm not even going to try it. One of my photographers said he had a D200 he would give me for a couple of weeks for a try, even just to see how I'd get on with Nikon menus and buttons etc. but I didn't take him up on it, for the very reasons you suggest.

I'll look into the body only prices, but I didn't really see a D80 body for less that œ500. So if I can get a D80 with a Nikkor 18-135 (which apparently is a œ200 lens) for œ609 it may be worth it as a starting point, and I could sell/add to it from there.

Thanks for the advise (Foz - you too), I'll let you know where I get to.

A.

"Hopefully everyone will be waiting for me at the top of the climb/descent/flat bit"

geeteewmb · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Fozzybear

again just backing up Hamish's comments you "don't need" 10mp and you need a decent PC to deal with the RAW files.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Foz, I've never used RAW files and 10MP is big. You know a fair bit about PCs, will my system be slowed down dramatically trying to handle files this big? (AMD 64 X2 Dual Core 4200+ and 4GB Ram)

"Hopefully everyone will be waiting for me at the top of the climb/descent/flat bit"

Unknown · June 2007

GT basically you times the lenses by 1.5
so the 18-135 is basically 28mm to 202mm you need to look a little less at the lens depth as some thing like the 70-300 VR lens would be a better match with a 18-70mm lens.
a good piece of advice hamish gave me was something along the lines,
a lens that tries to hard to cover to many ranges with F stop and length will end up as a jack of all trades and a master of non.

I think you should try a D50 it makes an excellent base to work from with lenses etc. That ¶œ200 will pay for a SB600 flash gun or a 70-300 VR lens. That's just my opinion.

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Unknown · June 2007

your PC is more than up to the task [:)]
you got CS3? let me know if not..

10MP Raw files are HUGE.. Hamish would give a closer answer to the size on card.

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geeteewmb · June 2007

I'm going to give the D50 some serious consideration...

The answer to your last question is no. Believe it or not, I'm using Picasa at the moment just for minor tweeks - which will need to change when I get a SLR...

"Hopefully everyone will be waiting for me at the top of the climb/descent/flat bit"

Unknown · June 2007

u got my gmail account... mail me your addy and i have one i would be more than happy to wing on it's way to you.

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Hamishwmb · June 2007

My piddly little 1G RAM laptop does okay with D200 files (I use compressed RAW which is a bit smaller - not sure if the D80 does it or not). I wouldn't mind a bit more speed though when running some photoshop filters but it's manageable. 2G RAM is the recommended amount for most stuff like photoshop. Although, until you get used to what adjustments are best/needed the computing speed won't really be as important as you'll spend more time wondering what to do.

--

"Hamish, that is one of the most sensible posts i've read on this forum!" - Futureboy 21/05/2007 06:31:46 

Some of my biking photos flickr - The Flying Pie my bike

Unknown · June 2007

GT do give it some thought.
here is someone's D50photos.. they are "ok" [;)]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/flyingpie/tags/d50/
i SERIOUSLY challenge you to spot the difference would be a GREAT idea for hamish to shoot the same shot with the D50 and the D200 with the same settings on the same lens. i think the difference will be REALLY hard to spot..
the D50 has the plus points of more AF spots than the D40 and the AF motor so it can work the AF lens it doesn't has as many as the D80 and the improved MP sensor but the D50 is MORE than enough to learn photography and by the time your passing the D50's limits you will have amassed some great lenses and maybe even a flash gun.

i've managed to get these with a D50 and a 50mm f1.8 lens (¶œ75)
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id ... 560&size=l
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id ... 560&size=l

two of my fav shots (Gee touched up by Hamish) i'd highly recommend the D50 as you can get a SB600 and a 50mm F1.8 for the difference between the D80 and the D50. with the 18-70mm (28 - 105mm) is a great setup then you can get the 70 -300 VR zoom later (excellent reviews for a "cheap" zoom).

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Unknown · June 2007

GT don't forget your home addy over e-mail..

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geeteewmb · June 2007

Thanks for the offer Foz, that's a big Pint I owe you. I sent you my address yesterday, but I'll send it again.

"Hopefully everyone will be waiting for me at the top of the climb/descent/flat bit"

Unknown · June 2007

i have your gmail one..

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Unknown · June 2007

send me your work address or home one and i'll post it to u.

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daxionwmb · June 2007

I use 10M Raw all the time on my 400D With a 4GB card, I'm unlikely to use up all the space in one session.
Processing the 10MB files are a bit large but do allow for cropping and still keeping a decent resolution. Dual core machines with 2GB RAM handle them no problem.
All my pics on my photo album (see sig) have been taken in 10MB and RAW (camera settings are also displayed). Processed with Canon's own software.

Buying Canon or Nikon from 500-1000 provide very similar results.
Suggest buying a UV, ND .3 and cir polarising filters, come in very handy and improves the photos you take (less time touching up)

Dax
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Hamishwmb · June 2007

UV filters aren't necessary. Digital cameras have UV filtering built in, unlike film cameras. It won't improve the image quality. I personally don't bother using them as protection as I don't see the point. If you break the filter then it'll scratch the front element anyway and unnecessary filters can be a source of flare. I just use careful handling and the lens hood instead. I only use filters if the effect is needed and would therefore recommend a circular polariser and ND (although I don't have any NDs myself!)

--

"Hamish, that is one of the most sensible posts i've read on this forum!" - Futureboy 21/05/2007 06:31:46 

Some of my biking photos flickr - The Flying Pie my bike

geeteewmb · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Fozzybear

send me your work address or home one and i'll post it to u.

<center><hr noshade size="1">Check my NEW Tried, Tested and Recommended kit
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<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Doh, now done - thanks!

"Hopefully everyone will be waiting for me at the top of the climb/descent/flat bit"

daxionwmb · June 2007

Didn't know about the built in UV filter, learn something new everyday.
Just started experimenting with ND with DSLR

Dax
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My new Photo Album. Various Pics
New Pic of Nitrous

S-Works Enduro newest pic
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Hamishwmb · June 2007

I've not bothered with ND yet. I don't really see the point in graduated ones given the ease of multiple exposures and digital ND filters in photoshop. Full on ND could be useful for seascapes/waterfalls but I just tend to use darkness/polarisers. Might invest in one.

--

"Hamish, that is one of the most sensible posts i've read on this forum!" - Futureboy 21/05/2007 06:31:46 

Some of my biking photos flickr - The Flying Pie my bike

daxionwmb · June 2007

I find greduated ND.3 is very good on landscapes, in the evening when facing the sun. Reduces glare and improves the contrast also balances the exposure.
There was an article on using NDs in Digital photograper 2-3 months ago.

Dax
<hr noshade size="1"><hr noshade size="1"><center>
My new Photo Album. Various Pics
New Pic of Nitrous

S-Works Enduro newest pic
Wharncliffe Route Map
My site - www.heretic-sports.info
<hr noshade size="1"></center>

FAO Hamish (and other DSLR aficionados)

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