a full sus as fast as hardtail?

whitedragon101 · May 2007

I have just had my bike stolen[:(] and need to replace it. I did have a 2004 GT Avalanche 0.5 hardtail.

I am looking for a really fast light hardtail the can take a bit of punishment. But I am now wondering if any of the dual sus bikes with lighter frames and fancy suspension could compete with the speed and tight feel of a hardtail on the flat but soak up the bumps cross country?

Any recommendations in either camp?

(budget wise I initally thought œ800 but that looks insuficient now so I think max is œ1500 ish [but if theres something mindblowing for œ1800 mention that too

].

miket-62 · May 2007

Get a full sus!
Scott Genuis MC50's cost about œ1,500
Scott Genius MC40's œ1,700
Once you go full sus you won't go back to hard tail, is my advice

miket-62 · May 2007

PS...Sorry to hear about your bike getting stolen.
I had mine stolen about a year back...Bummer!

Unknown · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by whitedragon101

I have just had my bike stolen[:(] and need to replace it. I did have a 2004 GT Avalanche 0.5 hardtail.

I am looking for a really fast light hardtail the can take a bit of punishment. But I am now wondering if any of the dual sus bikes with lighter frames and fancy suspension could compete with the speed and tight feel of a hardtail on the flat but soak up the bumps cross country?

Any recommendations in either camp?

(budget wise I initally thought œ800 but that looks insuficient now so I think max is œ1500 ish [but if theres something mindblowing for œ1800 mention that too

].
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

sorry to hear about the loss, i just hope it was insured,

My GT

feel free to add me if you have got msn,

gary_fisher3 · May 2007

Sorry to hear about your bike.

at the œ600 level I think I would rather have a hardtail. At the œ1500 mark, for me it's gota be a full bouncer .

guilliano · May 2007

A well specced, light hardtail definately!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/guilliano/

Anonymous · May 2007

IMHO you don't really want to spend less than œ1k on a full suss (unless is part of sale price).

<center>Nothing is more conducive to peace of mind than not having any opinions at all.</center>
<center>My Spesh</center>

whitedragon101 · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by apcmtb

IMHO you don't really want to spend less than œ1k on a full suss (unless is part of sale price).

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Any recommendation of which one?

Anonymous · May 2007

This is just my personal opinion but I love the Merlin range, still exclusive. I would be looking at the Malt 4 with the upgrades to what areas you see fit. Excellent value for money too.

Full sus, something along the lines of this, depnding what sort of use the bike is going to get.

http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/products.p ... m1b0s1p570

<center>Nothing is more conducive to peace of mind than not having any opinions at all.</center>
<center>My Spesh</center>

Mad Splasherwmb · May 2007

Fast and light, can't go far wrong with this http://www.cyclestore.co.uk/productDeta ... egoryID=66

George
<hr noshade size="1">
VeeTee Maxi-Baby Scotty Boy 
My Photos
Believe in your limitations and they shall be yours.

whitedragon101 · May 2007

If I can get hold of a Lightspeed Pisgah frame, is this as good as it looks? Does titanium really soak up the bumps?

Futureboy · May 2007

The Pisgah is an amazing frame. If you get a one at a good price, you won't regret it. They are one of the best frames ever IMHO.

Ti does soak up the bumps. Not so much the biggies, but it definitely takes the edge off the trail.

I ride a custom Ti, and it looks like i've just bought another. They make an immense all day, do everything bike.

Futureboy · May 2007

I meant to say, there is a 16.5" Pisgah for sale on STW and i think there might be one on sleazybay too.

streako · May 2007

If you want fast and light, and your local trails arent too severe, then the Giant Anthem is the way to go. Its more racy and stretched out than the Trance with less travel.
If its more of a trail bike you're after go for the Trance.

 Streako 
 Streakos Hardtail
 Streakos Full Susser

jon prothero · May 2007

To the question is a full sus as fast as hardtail?ÿ It would depend on who was riding it. As a generalisation though. Hard tails are usally fastest for going up hills where as full sus tend to be faster coming down ( If it is rough). A light full sus on a techinically demanding trail would be the one for me though.

Mad Splasherwmb · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by whitedragon101

Does titanium really soak up the bumps?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Not like a Fox RP23 does [:D]

George
<hr noshade size="1">
VeeTee Maxi-Baby Scotty Boy 
My Photos
Believe in your limitations and they shall be yours.

Unknown · May 2007

Very much depends on terrain and rider. And the price. At 800 quid, with average rider and terrain, the hardtail will win as it will be lighter and more efficient. At 1500, well, its questionable.

<center>GT Zaskar LE
GT Ruckus
Me!
MYSPACE<hr noshade size="1">Park Tools - help and instructions for all general bike fixes
Sheldon Brown - info about anything and everything</center>

Futureboy · May 2007

Sonic has hit the nail on the head really.

It very much depends on the who, where and how the bikes being ridden.
I can guarentee that i'd be faster over most terrain on my hardtail than i would be on a full suss. Others would say the opposite (probably because they are used to sussers).

In my own personal opinion, if i were in whitedragon's position and with the budget he has, i'd build up a nice HT. Particularly if he can get his hands on a Pisgah for decent money. That is a true bike for life, which will continue to reward him as his riding improves.

whitedragon101 · May 2007

I can get a 2006 Pisgah frame for œ800 but not for long. Is this an awesome frame to go for?

I don't want to get a frame and then hear someone say, "nice bike, shame you didn't buy frame X or Y which is better."

Futureboy · May 2007

If i could get a Pisgah for that price, i'd buy it.

There aren't many better made hardtails than Litespeed.

futon river crossing · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by whitedragon101

I can get a 2006 Pisgah frame for œ800 but not for long. Is this an awesome frame to go for?

I don't want to get a frame and then hear someone say, "nice bike, shame you didn't buy frame X or Y which is better."
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Someone will allways say that -

Can you test ride it? I wouldn't buy something I hadn't ridden.

My Bike

http://angelafung.net/my_bike.jpg

Hamishwmb · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by whitedragon101

I am now wondering if any of the dual sus bikes with lighter frames and fancy suspension could compete with the speed and tight feel of a hardtail on the flat but soak up the bumps cross country?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

To answer the first part of your question - not really. Competing with the speed and tight feel on the flat is not the main point of full suss. You don't get the same speed from pumping the bike out of the bends/dips either. To answer the second part of your question - yes. Short travel full sussers are very good at soaking up the bumps on the ups and downs.

It really depends on what you ride. If it's pretty flat/smooth stuff then HT would be better. If it's bumpier then full suss can have a lot of advantages.

Personally speaking, I'm quicker on my full suss around most of the trails I ride but we have a lot of rough stuff in Scotland where the extra comfort/traction and ability to stay seated, therefore conserving your energy on climbs helps a lot. There are some trail sections where I actually use full travel on the ups as the improved traction/smoothness is more useful than any loss in power. And the full suss benefits on the downs are just great. You can still go fast on a HT but it really tires you out quicker.

But, as everyone has said, it really depends on what you use it for.

--

"Hamish, that is one of the most sensible posts i've read on this forum!" - Futureboy 21/05/2007 06:31:46 

Some of my biking photos flickr - The Flying Pie my bike

whitedragon101 · May 2007

I think I have come down in the hardtail camp then but before I continue knocking myself out trying to track down a 2006 Litespeed Pisgah frame I would be grateful if anyone can shed light on the following.

http://www.litespeed.com/bikes/2006/mtn/pisgah_.aspx

1) I am used to riding a GT Avalanche. In these bikes the top tube seems to slope down quite a bit and the back end is quite small. However the Pisgah as you can see from the link has a more straight across top tube and the back is a bit larger (kind of like a Giant XTC). Does anyone have an idea what the differing ride characteristics will be with the different shape?

I am a little worried that straight top tube means "smooth ride handles like a bus, don't race it" and the sloped one is the "racing fast handling shape."

2) Is there a major difference between the
3/2.5 titanium and the 6Al/4V titanium ?

Thanks

DSA244 · May 2007

I recently changed to a full suss and so glad I did you won't go back if you change.

I agree with the above though if you do decide on a full suss you should be looking at the top of your budget. I can thoroughly recommend the Stmpy 07. Any decent full suss will have pro pedal and a lock out setting to compensate your HT needs. Yes I know the bike weighs more, but so much easier to ride, especially on theose bumpy climbs and descents as the grip is far better.

Wolf · May 2007

1) This bike is more of a racer than the GT. See long upper tube and steep head angle.

2)http://spokesmanbicycles.com/page.cfm?PageID=328

My next hardtail is going to be Titanium...

Marin Eldridge Grade 07
GT Avalanche 1.0 07

madmole · May 2007

I went FS. it was lighter than my HT. definately faster on climbs as it grips better and doesnt spin out. Feels great on the flat (tyres make more diference)

Do try a Marin FS. 06 versions going for a song at the moment

Marin Mount Vision 2005. Hope Pro 2/Mavic XC717/DT rev. Cinders 2.1, XT, Easton 70 bars, ODI rogues, KMC Chain, various bling

whitedragon101 · May 2007

Ok last question guys, promise:

I'm going for the Litespeed Pisgah hardtail and am spec-ing bike components as we speak (1 hour till purchase time

)

Which brakes do I go for, Hope Mono M4 or Hope Mono Mini? I have tried Mono M4 but I'm wondering is the mini's can compete power wise?

also whats this fixed or floating disc business? and black or braided hose?

Thanks

Futureboy · May 2007

Good choice!

If you want to use Hope, i'd go for mini's.

IMO, M4's would be overkill.

madmole · May 2007

Mini 180/160 work for 100 kg me

Fixed means the disk is a single metal disk. Floaters have a central aluminium carrier with the disk riveted on. Floats are lighter and supposed to take more heat (and they look good)

Black hoses are just plastic, braided are metal sheaved and in theory dont stretch as much if you pull hard on the levers. its a small difference and one thats normally totally lost if there is any air in the system. A well bled black cable will beat a braided with air or old fluid. All things equal the braided excerts more clamping force on the disk and again looks fly

Marin Mount Vision 2005. Hope Pro 2/Mavic XC717/DT rev. Cinders 2.1, XT, Easton 70 bars, ODI rogues, KMC Chain, various bling

a full sus as fast as hardtail?

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