Making a bike frame

Moikle · June 2007

I am considering making a steel dirt jump frame for my A2 Product Design course. I was wandering what you lovely people think of this idea, and basically if you can tell me whether or not i am an idiot for considering doing this. Also, what would be the best way of threading the BB housing? I know that i can bore out the seat tube and head tube to very specific diameters, so thats sorted. I also have a spare frame to work out geometry and sizing.

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I have a Giant Kona
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rubber side up · June 2007

mike skinner (iirc) made a full sus frame as a project. tbh, i should know who it was, the frame is now in my bedroom [:)]

I'd expect he has some info you will find useful.

<hr noshade size="1"><center><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by EvilAlex

Something round here tastes bad. Could be plain old bad taste.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></center>www.mtb-bitz.co.uk - Bitz for you & your mountain bike. pinkbike

gerallt · June 2007

You could make it a bmx bb and therefore no need to get a thread

--cymru am byth--
stock giant acid << Gone

24seven darkangel slacker v01

JammyH · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rubber side up

mike skinner (iirc) made a full sus frame as a project. tbh, i should know who it was, the frame is now in my bedroom [:)]

I'd expect he has some info you will find useful.

<hr noshade size="1"><center><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by EvilAlex

Something round here tastes bad. Could be plain old bad taste.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></center>www.mtb-bitz.co.uk - Bitz for you & your mountain bike. pinkbike
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Pics?

James x
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DJIP

Your bike reminds me of a Praying Mantis.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I brake for Scholars, Priests and no apparent reason.

Moikle · June 2007

Yeah i remember seeing pics of Mikes frame on here a while back. Thanks for the info on the BMX BB, i will go and research that now.

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I have a Giant Kona
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Shadow_Conspiracy · June 2007

BMX BB and standard hradtube would be easiest.

You would need to make a jig from wood, and get drop outs etc.

this is a good site for frame building http://www.framebuilding.com/index.html

<center>Bike!</center>

Moikle · June 2007

Wow thats an awesome site. Thanks. Will be a lot of work, but i think i can pull it off. I make a workstand last year, and i want to go one better - a bike to put in it.

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I have a Giant Kona
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Shadow_Conspiracy · June 2007

It would be quite awesome, i wouldn't try anything too radical though.

Find a frame that you like the ride of a copy the geo of it, you could change the TT or seat tube length to suit your size but use tried and tested angles, or it probably will end up riding like a sack of shit!

<center>Bike!</center>

rubber side up · June 2007

Best bet would be to do something very simple, Horizontal dropouts, Bmx BB, Standard headtube, and model it on a frame you like, to get the ideal geometry.

Then think of the material you want to use, Ie what grade of steel, box section type chainstays or tube, how thick do you want it to be? whats the best material to make it incredibly strong, without making it weigh a ton, where do you want to put gussets (headtube is the usual area, but seat stay gussets seem to add a lot of rigidity to a frame)

Then you need to make the jig, bear in mind if thats not perfect then theres no poing building the frame, as it could turn out buckled, you'll need to have it spot on for things like dropout spacing, disc mounts etc.

<hr noshade size="1"><center><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by EvilAlex

Something round here tastes bad. Could be plain old bad taste.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></center>www.mtb-bitz.co.uk - Bitz for you & your mountain bike. pinkbike

Big Red S · June 2007

I'd suggest that it's a really bad idea.

Not because you're an idiot, but because the course is (or was when I did it) based more around producing pretty paperwork and an easily-critiqued product than learning any processes or doing anything useful. Uni's a better place to do work like that.

You really want to do something that the examiner will be familiar with - they give marks for it conforming to things, rather than remove them for it not.

And you want to do something that will let you have as many different, creative designs as possible. And these must look both different and creative to your average examiner, and also all be plausible in a school DT workshop.

I lost marks for not painting the workstand I made for my A2 coursework (sure, it was steel, but it was also only a prototype).
I gained nothing for the four or five pages of mathematical rationalisation for it's final shape. Instead, it was pointed out that i'd not followed a proper procedure for coming to the final design.

Yours *might* be different, though. This was with the WJEC board in 2003.

<hr noshade size="1">

README
[url=mailto:avisforwardedemails@gmail.com?subject=MBUK Moderation]E-mail me if you think i've moderated something wrong[/url] (but don't change the subject or I won't get it)

Westie · June 2007

Big Red S has it spot on, you need to have your work in pretty borderd sheets and all printed out with no handwritten stuff. Your project needs to have something that a dumbass could see as having a design process.
The standard double diamond bike frame has been around for around 100 years and an examiner who knows little about the subtle details of bike design won't see past this. Best off crushing your dreams and build a coffee table or a really smart CD rack.

My bike frame project involved learning how to use the oxyacetelyne setup- which counted for nothing in terms of marks. I had to analyse the various grades of steel on the market and how their properties are effected by various joining methods and balance all that with cost; Again all useless for the hoops they make you jump through.

<center>[url=My KonaStinky</center><center>[url=The frame I built</center></center><center>[url=Deviations</center><center>

rubber side up · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Westie

Big Red S has it spot on, you need to have your work in pretty borderd sheets and all printed out with no handwritten stuff. Your project needs to have something that a dumbass could see as having a design process.
The standard double diamond bike frame has been around for around 100 years and an examiner who knows little about the subtle details of bike design won't see past this. Best off crushing your dreams and build a coffee table or a really smart CD rack.

My bike frame project involved learning how to use the oxyacetelyne setup- which counted for nothing in terms of marks. I had to analyse the various grades of steel on the market and how their properties are effected by various joining methods and balance all that with cost; Again all useless for the hoops they make you jump through.

<center>[url=My KonaStinky</center><center>[url=The frame I built</center></center><center>[url=Deviations</center><center> 
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sounds an awful lot like GCSE Computing, 2 years using a database program that no self respecting company would bother to use, Following a strict set of guidelines, any attempt at making your work stand out from others was dismissed. what a waste of two years that was [:(]

<hr noshade size="1"><center><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by EvilAlex

Something round here tastes bad. Could be plain old bad taste.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></center>www.mtb-bitz.co.uk - Bitz for you & your mountain bike. pinkbike

mongooseTE17 · June 2007

Westie looking at your frame it appears you have brazed and not welded the joints? You say you used oxyacetelyne torch but why didnt you use welding filler rod instead of brazing rod. It is stronger. Welding rod is a steel filler with a copper coating and braze is an alloy of copper and zinc. You did a good job anyway, the joints are all smooth.

My Elite!

lugsey2k5 · June 2007

i would'nt advice making a bike from for DT
but if u still want to why not just make 1 in your own time?
can always use college equiptment im sure they'l let you if there anything like my teacher

sjdrifnfo · June 2007

What about making this?
Make your own drop outs and this seems a good starter frame to make.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by homers double

No you didn't, you lie, exaggerate and bullsh<s></s>it you way through life to try and feed your ego, which quite frankly is the size of a deflated cum catcher on the end of a midgets condom.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

mbukjames · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rubber side up

mike skinner (iirc) made a full sus frame as a project. tbh, i should know who it was, the frame is now in my bedroom [:)]

I'd expect he has some info you will find useful.

<hr noshade size="1"><center><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by EvilAlex

Something round here tastes bad. Could be plain old bad taste.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></center>www.mtb-bitz.co.uk - Bitz for you & your mountain bike. pinkbike
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Pixs or it don't exhist..

Mr Chucker
The frame
stikorz [:D]
My Ride

dansweet123 · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mbukjames

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rubber side up

mike skinner (iirc) made a full sus frame as a project. tbh, i should know who it was, the frame is now in my bedroom [:)]

I'd expect he has some info you will find useful.

<hr noshade size="1"><center><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by EvilAlex

Something round here tastes bad. Could be plain old bad taste.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></center>www.mtb-bitz.co.uk - Bitz for you & your mountain bike. pinkbike
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Pixs or it don't exhist..

Mr Chucker
The frame
stikorz [:D]
My Ride
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Spell correctly or fuck off. Stop jumping on the bandwagon, it does exist, im sure he'll post pictures when he's next on.

quote:
<hr noshade size="1">
Originally posted by El Capitano

Post Counts give you cancer anyway![:D]
<hr noshade size="1">
Sidekick Sidekick rear end Sidekick front end
My old general lee

mongooseTE17 · June 2007

^Well said.

My Elite!

Mike Skinner · June 2007

Hey, What do you mean when I'm next on. That implies I ever leave this place. I don't ever leave, I just hibernate.

Anyhow, bike frames. I'm not really one to 'advise' as such, seeing as mine didn't really work, thus why I gave it away for another ambitious soul to finish, but I can point out some regular failing areas:

The front end is easy if you have a decent Jig made up (good jigs are teh essential of the project, if your Jig is accurate and tight, it will work, if you bodge it, the frame will suck).

The back end is harder as you have to worry about chain line, disk alignment (or brake mounts), hub size, as well as getting it all straight so the wheel sits straight on every axis. It's by no means impossible, but i can't emphasise enough how important it is to get the jig right. Plan it so all the metal is held solidly in place and can't wobble, as a couple of mill wobble at one end of the jig puts the drop-out end way out.

this was my jig for the front end. Pretty simple as nothing in the front triangle has to be supported above itself like it does at the back
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/d ... 110306.jpg

Here's the (kinda) finished frame:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/d ... 120021.jpg

(and just to be bernard mathews!y, here's brooklyn's new 'slopestyle' bike. I might have copied their frame, but they copied my chainline: http://www.downhill911.com/images/SR6-B ... -Works.jpg)

I'd say go for it, but be committed, cos if you want it to be useable, you'll probably put in twice as much time and effort as your class-mates do for theirs. But at least you'll enjoy doing the research (which really helps, nothing worse than writing 50 pages on something you couldn't give a damn about), and as I say, if you do work hard and get it right, you get a bike frame at the end that you get to boast about as well as ride.

Also, if you do decide to go for it, chat to the guys at curtis about materials, getting hold of pre-machined drop-outs/BB etc. They were really friendly and helpful for me, and while I paid for the T45 steel (which was expensive) they gave me a head-tube, BB tube and some spare drop-outs/disc tabs for less than cost.

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mbukjames · June 2007

Ok so it does exist..

Mr Chucker
The frame
stikorz [:D]
My Ride

Westie · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mongooseTE17

Westie looking at your frame it appears you have brazed and not welded the joints? You say you used oxyacetelyne torch but why didnt you use welding filler rod instead of brazing rod. It is stronger. Welding rod is a steel filler with a copper coating and braze is an alloy of copper and zinc. You did a good job anyway, the joints are all smooth.

My Elite!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yeah I fillet brazed the frame, I chose that because welding involved melting the tubes that I spent so long cutting to shape! If I had had years to learn how I might have oxy-welded them or even learned how to Tig weld.
Brazing is pretty strong and easily sufficient for bike use, when testing my brazes to destuction the tubes tore along the heat affected zone and left the actual braze intact, you get a heat affected zone whatever method is used.

<center>[url=My KonaStinky</center><center>[url=The frame I built</center></center><center>[url=Deviations</center><center>

rubber side up · June 2007

See ^^ told you [;)]

Was a shame the suspension main pivot was on the wonky. gotta get round to attempting to fix it [:)]

<hr noshade size="1"><center><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by EvilAlex

Something round here tastes bad. Could be plain old bad taste.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></center>www.mtb-bitz.co.uk - Bitz for you & your mountain bike. pinkbike

mongooseTE17 · June 2007

Yeh ok, gas welding is tricky, I used it when making a guitar stand for my GCSE engineering project.(no pics at the moment its still at school.) Now thinking of it I should have used braze rather than welding rod. Its quicker and neater because it has a lower melting piont and does not let air bubbles biuld up in the weld pool and then spit and explode! I wanted to Arc weld it but the school didnt have one which is a shame as im pretty handy with and Arc welder.

My Elite!

Mike Skinner · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rubber side up

See ^^ told you [;)]

Was a shame the suspension main pivot was on the wonky. gotta get round to attempting to fix it [:)]

<hr noshade size="1"><center><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by EvilAlex

Something round here tastes bad. Could be plain old bad taste.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></center>www.mtb-bitz.co.uk - Bitz for you & your mountain bike. pinkbike
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

yuh, that was a bernard mathews!-up by the TIG welder. He thought it was part of the JIG so didn't weld it on, then when I picked it up he was away for the next week so we had to do thatquickly in the workshop. hence the error.

<center>HighZine "More Fun than Kucking Dead Fids</center>
<center>Punk Cabaret Is Freedom</center>
<center>M i n i- L i n k</center>
<center>Old Vids</center>

Making a bike frame

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