Carbon Monoxide as a marginal gain?
Interesting read on how a measuring test is being mis-used :
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Possibly being misused. People have been talking about this for at least a decade.
Others might make the point that it's not against any rules as yet (and God knows how you'd test for it as a specific method). It's the sort of thing you might be able to pick up on the bio passport I guess - with the same sort of profile as some sort of EPO dosing (new young blood cells, no altitude camp)
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To my understanding, if massively misused it has disastrous consequences as the carbon monoxide binds more securely to the erythrocyte than O2 and thus cannot be replaced by O2 then for the lifespan of the cell leading to death of the organism from oxygen starvation.
So, it seems the juice is not worth the squeeze, since possible benefits are suspect at best and no where near something like EPO.
PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 20230 -
If it's legal and proven teams would be mad not to be on this. The article mentions smoking as similarly raising the blood level - I'm guessing not but would having a cigarette every 4 hours work ?
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Speaking as someone who has just lapsed back into the habit after 5 years of abstinence, that aspect has me 🤞.
You're the light wiping out my batteries; You're the cream in my airport coffee's.0 -
Controlled CO exposure in lab animals has been used for years to study the pathology and physiological effects of hypoxia (found in patients with chronic lung disease as well as high altitude). It stimulates EPO production and hence increases haematocrit. Chronic microdosing (maybe following altitude camp) would probably look like a prolonged altitude response on the biopassport.
There are also experimental CO-releasing compounds (CORMs), with potential therapeutic applications- surprisingly in inflammation and cardiovascular disease. These would make controlled chronic exposure much easier (maybe oral dosing), and doubtless WADA are looking at ways of measuring these.
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Well it could be quite dangerous if you bodged something up.
It's also probably pretty expensive if you don't.
Hypoxia tents are banned BTW
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🤨 I detect a whiff of conspiracy theory worm hole aroma, a bit like all that mechanical doping, hidden electric motors, magic electromagnetic wheels etc kerfuffle from a decade ago...
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Not seeing it as controllable . If it worked it would be rife like epo
"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
How come it only works on pog and Jonas ?
"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm1 -
To be included on the Prohibited List, a substance or method must satisfy at least two of three criteria:
- 1. It has the potential to enhance or enhances sport performance;
- 2. It represents an actual or potential health risk to the athlete;
- 3. It violates the spirit of sport
Meets 2 and 3, also 1 if it works.
WADA list 2024
S0 Any pharmacological substance which is not addressed by any of the subsequent sections of the List and with no current approval by any governmental regulatory health authority for human therapeutic use (e.g. drugs under pre-clinical or clinical development or discontinued, designer drugs, substances approved only for veterinary use) is prohibited at all times
[- maybe splitting hairs here, I don't think CO has approved therapeutic use, although does have diagnostic use]
Or S2 The following substances, and other substances with similar chemical structure or similar biological effect(s), are prohibited. S2.1. ERYTHROPOIETINS (EPO) AND AGENTS AFFECTING ERYTHROPOIESIS
[-CO or CO releasing molecules are not specificied. Inhaled xenon, which may have a similar effect, and is]
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Except a female cross rider was caught using a motor - it seems likely others used them without being caught. My money would be on some big wins on the road having had motorised assistance - the rider on whom most suspicion fell for one.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
I disagree. Just because a relatively unknown mid pack rider used it in CX does not mean that it had widespread use in CX or the road among the elite.
PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 20232 -
E-bikes look e-bike-ish. Unless there is some magic tech that can make an e-bike match a pro roadie bike frame profile, then as the saying goes 'Ah hae ma doots'.
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The tech has been available for a long time - we know it's been used in amateur races as well as that CX rider - the only question is whether decent pros used it. My take is given the history of doping why wouldn't they use a new method of cheating. The cancellara bike change (Flanders or Roubaix?) was just too suspect when you add it to the unreal acceleration.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
I mean by definition training hits 1) and I don’t understand why you think it violates the spirit?
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This tech that is available, where do you buy it?
Honestly, the amount of time and effort that has been wasted by the UCI on 'technological fraud' is ridiculous. There has been just one case in what, 8 years of investigations.
Anyone who thinks Cancellara was using some secret tech that hasn't been commercialised still is an idiot.
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It's not hard to find evidence the tech exists - the fact it's been used in races proves that don't you think ? Use google, listen to Ghost In The Machine podcast, read the link below. There is no debate that the tech exists - the only question is whether it's been used at a higher level than that cross race. Anyone that just dismisses that as a realistic possibility either doesn't know much about the sport or probably thought Lance was clean right up until he confessed.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
To summarise - thinks it's unlikely now due to checks but likely to have happened between 2008-2013
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
We have discussed mechanical doping extensively before and are really only rehashing previously made points.
If I had the tech that gives that type of performance benefit while being sleek enough in design to be almost undetectable and invisible to the naked eye, why would I not license it out to Trek, Specialized, Giant, Pinarello, Colnago, Scott et al. and become a multi billionaire instead of selling it to select pro elite riders for a tiny fraction of that income.
All of human history and nature would point to that being absurd.
PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 20231 -
I'd assume people who want expensive bikes don't want batteries. There are enough souped up bikes whizzing round London for me to think it would be pretty trivial to convert a high end bike.
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of course it's trivial. But to do it in a way so that there are no visible components so as to arouse the suspicions of the UCI? Such technology is not commercially available.
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I think the point made was that it might have happened before the UCI started checking not that it is still happening.
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There are bikes like the Bianchi E-Oltre that will look like a normal road bike at first glance and cost around £8.5k in top spec. However, if you look closely there are give aways such as the larger bottom bracket area and the system adds about 3.5kg to the bike weight which I think it's fair to say would be noticed without any expensive technology. I'm sure the people buying that bike would pay more to get the bike down to a similar weight to an non-electric version. No-one creates technology like that without putting in out to the largest possible market (unless it's in something like defence research). I'm amazed anyone is still buying into the tech having existed 10-15 years ago and yet hasn't managed to filter down to the mass market, just look at how any other technology has evolved over that period.
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I still don't understand why hypoxia tents are banned.
It's just the same as going to altitude, albeit much less costly.
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Turns out I was wrong (yeah, I know, I'm as surprised as you, but it does happen occasionally) and they aren't actually banned, except in Italy and Norway
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