Paris Olympics SPOILER Thread
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Maybe they shouldn't have let that word get out of the camp? It'd be interesting to understand if GB purposefully started faster to nullify the Danes. It was a high risk strategy though, I was out last night so watched the race later, already knowing the result, and at the 3km mark I was thinking I'd misheard the result as GB were so far behind.
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There is more than one way to skin a cat.
Each team has four riders, you need to find a way that maximises each of their strengths to produce the fastest time possible. Some riders can absorb a fast start and still contribute to the end, others can't. It looks simple from the outside, but it is much more complex than you'd imagine.
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Alternatively, it could have been a bluff to get GB to start too fast.
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Yeah but they’ve been training for a long time. If you don’t know how to race your fastest race in the Olympics you have bigger problems.
Id say in a race like this, paying any attention to the other team is stupid.
Your fastest way to a-b is the fastest. I don’t want to have the rowing debate again on this side of the forum, but getting into tactical races with the other team is stupid.
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Same as with rowing and swimming really - try and force the opposition out of their optimum plan. Neither team knows exactly what they or the oppo are capable of (*) so simply riding a team's best possible time might see them finish second in a two-horse race. If the oppo charges off the start, do you try and stay in touch, or rely on them having done a "fly and die" when you don't know how fast they're capable of?
Caveat - in the qualifying round, you would aim to go as a fast as possible, which means even(ish) pacing after the start.
(*) No track teams play all their cards in the period between OGs, so there are no benchmarks as to what "fast" is on race day. GB may ride a 3:39 today and still lose against the Aussies. (Unlikely, as I think GB played all its card to make the final, whereas the Aussies may have an extra shot in their locker, so they'll likely lose with a similar time to yesterday's.)
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Honestly, this is absolute madness. The distance is the same. The fastest is the fastest.
I despair.
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It's a pursuit race, the timing only comes into it if one of the teams don't catch their opponents. There's a whole range of strategies that can be deployed. Jo Rowsell was saying yesterday that it's rare for fast times to come when a team is alone on a track, as the benefits of having a team to chase, and the impact of catching their slipstream, is significant.
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Yeah it makes you go faster but if you think it’s a tactical race you’re mad. If you think that the gap between the top teams is big enough to get a draft off you, then you have bigger problems than tactics.
It is the biggest fallacy. Properly in my pet hates 101
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Memo to all swimmers, rowing and timed-event cyclists: You've got it wrong. Chasey says that tactics are irrelevant. Just do your race as a time trial and you'll be fine.
But seriously, when you're pushing a theory that is contradicted by the real world evidence provided by elite athletes, is it more likely that they're all wrong or that your theory is wrong?
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So Rick, you don't think the Danes hammering out the start in the qualifying round of the TP wasn't a tactic?
The aim was to put pressure on whoever they next came up against, by effectively saying, do you trry to stick with us or are you willing to risk riding your own tempo?
Did you not see the Aussie team sprinters swap P2 and P3 around for the final?
It is common in championships to try to conserve energy if possible in the rounds up to the final, in whatever sport. The heats aren't always (or are rarely in many sports) about going as fast as possible.
and likewise, look at athletics in 800m and above, the final is often not the fastest race either.
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Stop paying attention to your rivals and race your fastest race!
It’s not the sprint.
800m race is different as only one runner is incentivised to race their fastest race!
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Meanwhile the track is running fast..
Some of those bikes look like they've been borrowed from the butcher’s delivery boy though
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Women's pursuit evidently missing Archibald :-(
Still have a crack at bronze though.
Archibald would have ridden the omnium, do we know who is doing so instead - Barker?
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Laura Kenny's prediction is currently looking wildly optimistic.
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Still a British record and only lost by 0.25s so they were very close to getting into the final
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Going for the catch has been a viable tactic in the past
"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
If it's just the time why have two team pursuit instead of a TT ?
"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Denmark caught GB in Tokyo. Rode straight into the back of 'em.
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So for the women's TP, what tactics (accepting the even-paced TT approach as a tactic) would you adopt if you were the US?
The US qualified in 4:04.629 going pretty much all-in vs GB to secure a narrow win. Alternative scenario of them riding within themselves and managing such a fine margin feels unlikely.
NZ qualified slightly slower 4:04.818, but with a clear margin over the Italians.
NZ may have gone all-in or they may have an extra gear. So as the US do you ride for your fastest time and accept that NZ might simply ride faster, or do you "roll the dice" and try and disrupt NZ so they ride inefficiently, thus making your task easier? Or do you just ride to match NZ and hope they blow up before you do?
No point considering this from the NZ viewpoint as only they know how much they had in reserve.
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Speeds are so high you’ll not ever get a catch at that level. Ride your race and hope they do a Canada
if you get caught you were never gonna win anyway.
Say you go harder than optimal early; you’ll just blow up before the end and lose by a bigger margin.
The reason the TP is only big in the Olympics is it’s boring without mega high stakes.
Madions were massively popular in tnt 20s-50s precisely because they are mega tactical .
mass start cycling shits on all other racing precisely because tactics can beat superior athleticism. That’s why the Tour is as big as it is and why the Olympic road race is still a bit of a chipper.
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Hadn't realised that, although they seem to be saying it is running very fast I gather, track and conditions combined presumably.
They didn't have that long surge that KA can do, when she sits on the front for a long period, I recall those pulls making a significant difference in the timing gaps.
Cyclist.co.uk has Elinor Barker down for the Madison with Neah Evans, and Evans down for the Omnium.
They also have both Hayter and Ollie Wood down for Omnium, Madison and Team Pursuit - the latter completing tonight.
Not sure I can ever recall two riders from the same country in an Olympic omnium, so perhaps either a website mistake, or they have not decided which rider will ride it yet.
Italy's TP team have really surprised me, I wonder if they might be carrying some illness or something, as they seem way under what I think you would normally expect from them.
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Takes half of the time to complete
Is more engaging for the spectators in the velodrome and watching on TV/stream
Will provide faster times due to riding within ~100m of the other team
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That's a bit of a splatter-gun answer I think.
What's you're recommended tactic for the US? Ride to a pre-agreed schedule and hope for the best?
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Glorified is doing a fair amount of "heavy lifting" there!
But anyway, we all know that you know better than the pros. We're just joshing for a bit of sport by suggesting there may be tactics involved, after you've told us there aren't.
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It's funny how much the team pursuit has changed in recent years due to, dare we say it, tactical innovation.
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Isn’t they stopped fannying about, got in the wind tunnel and realised training and racing on massive gears made them go fast as fuck? Aka a focus on their own speed over 4km and not worrying about what the other lot were doing
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They won't know how fast they can go until there's another team on the track 0.1 seconds ahead.
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