2024 UK politics - now with Labour in charge
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Yeah, but if you actually do seize the means of production...
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Feels a little futile to get upset about political parties using rhetorical devices.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
In my previous job I was paid a small salary plus B share dividends, the salary was placed just above the limit that I had to pay NI but it was negligible. I was never very comfortable getting paid that way but it was the only way they could afford to math my take-home pay when I first joined them as a start-up. I found it a bit of a PITA as I had to do tax returns and ensure I'd kept enough back to pay the 6 monthly bill. They never got around to putting me on a normal salary even when the company grew significantly and they were employing people earning similar or higher salaries on a normal basic salary which became annoying. The oveall tax I paid was lower than it would have been for the same take-home on a PAYE salary, I think that was somehow down to the amount I would have paid at 40%.
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Don't know, but the above says something about the intelligence of Labour voters.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Let's not think what Truss or Mr Fuck Business says about the intelligence of Tories eh
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Sadly true. But I have my personal standards, and I sleep easy knowing that they are much higher than those of pretty much every politician.
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I voted Labour with my eyes firmly open (my logic was all politicians are cr*p, so we might as well have some who aren't obviously so institutionally corrupt and in awe of Farage as the Tories) and I'm arrogant enough to assume I'm reasonably intelligent. So I was expecting a lot of tax rises, despite the rhetoric. I am very disappointed though at how politically inept Starmer and Reeves are, as it doesn't bode well for the future. Whilst we're all dead in the long run, I'd quite like the next 5 years to be competently overseen even if I return to the Tory fold next time. (Which feels unlikely, but life is full of surprises.)
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It does remind me of the Stephen Fry thing about the electorate getting the politicians they deserve, as we demand them to promise the unrealistic to get our vote, then get all huffy when they can't deliver. I just assume all manifestos are about 25% deliverable, and the rest is just marketing guff to persuade a hypocritical electorate to vote for them.
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So you don't work in sales.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I think you might have to wait a bit longer than four months to see how crap they are. I think there's a mixture of political realism/cowardice, but the media have done a really good job of relentlessly attacking them from every angle and setting the agenda, while Labour's fight-back and messaging have been politically naive/poor.
I'm still just happy that the Tories are nowhere near power, as they still show no signs that they have learned any lessons whatsoever, or are prepared to admit they screwed up through both incompetence and corruption.
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When Labour said ‘working people’, it was PAYE employees that sprung to mind.
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The media have been probing every crack and crevice, I mean I like scrutiny as much as the next person, but some of the stuff they are throwing about is business-as-usual non-stories. Labour do not appear to have prepped for that, and haven’t handled it at all well, which is naive. For the sake of country I hope they’ll learn and finally turn the ship around, which is what I was hoping from the tories for the past few years.
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Not all, clearly. But a decent number were gullible or stupid enough (as KG pointed out) to believe them - and vote for Labour thinking they were safe.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
Please don't put words into my mouth. I was saying those who pretend to think that what they meant was that nobody who has a job will pay any more on anything are being deliberately stupid.
I mean people who have jobs but also a petrol car will pay more for petrol if the tax on that goes up. I assume someone has tried to pretend that makes them liars.
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I expect they will try very hard to keep their promises about income tax, vat and employees NI. I think they've backed themselves into a corner here maybe a little unnecessarily.
More than fair to bash them about employer NI, but both parties have made fuck ups with that now.
I also don't really believe the Tories would have been able to make the cuts that meant their NI reductions were "affordable".
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This is what you said...as I read it, if you believe it then you're stupid. Or am I missing something?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I'd say they'd have a possible complaint if their income from employment was subject to increase in taxes, but they are thickos if they thought that the fact that a proportion of their income came from employment somehow shielded them from any other tax rises or taxes rises on other sources of income
Maybe they are thickos
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
You're missing something.
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Looked like an open goal and seemed a bit rude not to tap it into the back of the net 😉
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I think those with a genuine grievance are the ones who work (or at least class themselves as working with some reasonable basis) and are still being hit on their income from working - RJS has said as much on here in relation to employers NIC and I mentioned the landlord example upthread where the individuals concerned work pretty hard to manage their properties etc.
That is of course dependent on what is announced next Wednesday.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Not a grievance as such. I just hope everyone is realistic about their next pay review. I do find the rhetoric about 'working people' or 'hard working people' (or even more cringe: 'strivers') really tedious. A bit less of trying to divide the country into them and us would be very welcome.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
"A bit less of trying to divide the country into them and us would be very welcome."
I can do that. We will all have to pay to fix this broken country.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Well the BoE have been worried about wage inflation, so this could be a masterstroke.
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Anyone who heard Starmer say no increases for working people and thought their rental income would be immune is thick
And if they thought they'd vote for Starmer on that basis then they're doubly thick...I think were actually in agreement on that, which is nice.
On employers NIC, if person looks at their payslip before and after the increase and finds their takehome pay to be the same on the same gross, then there's no new taxes on that working person. That's a simple standard to test the proposition
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
The proposed 2% increase in employers NIC is not going to be a major influence on your next pay review.
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
That surely entirely depends on individual employer's situations. It will have a significant impact for some, minimal impact for others. At the end of the day, each employee is a cost centre for a business, so if there is only scope to increase that cost centre by 2%, then there will be no pay rise,
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2% on our wage bill is not trivial. It's a good job inflation is levelling off.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
We aren't disagreeing on the first part. Taxes are specific in terms what income stream that they impact.
On your second point, you are looking at the direct, short term impact. It's likely that quite a few changes Reeves will make could impact your after tax earnings in ways that are not visible by looking at two payslips a month apart. Pension contribution tax deductions are one example (sometimes adjusted in tax returns), changing rate thresholds (which typically happens annually) is another one. And the employers NIC increase mentioned above will likely impact pay rises and bonuses for many employees.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Nor ours. I expect this to impact my pay review next year if it comes to pass - which is looking likely.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
It could help counteract the public sector pay bonanzas.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
