2024 UK politics - now with Labour in charge
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The only one I understand to any degree is the German one, which is income based mandatory contributions, shared between individuals and employers.
It's basically national insurance, at the tax payer's end.
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I'm not sure how the sums on this work, but basically it sounds like just another tax, with a load of insurance companies potentially taking their cut.
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You still only have a finite number of people delivering the service though and if people are paying (directly) they're probably going to expect a better service in the way that you would with private healthcare at present.
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Anyone who has had any experience with animal health insurance might have a different view on its merits.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
Works quite well for me, but you are screwed if you hit the coverage limits.
Human healthcare is more expensive, so the cliff edge you approach is higher. With all true insurance models, that's the risk.
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They spend more on healthcare per capita in Germany.
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So Dutch is my preferred model. Run by private companies albeit heavily regulated.
If you are poor you are given free insurance by the state and it’s a sliding scale until you can afford it all.
The insurance market is heavily regulated, must cover all illnesses and cannot exclude or penalise people for existing illnesses etc.
As a result you have a higher spend on health with better health outcomes than the Uk but you avoid the US problem of people not being able to pay for their own health.
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£200 a year is not going to cover much and insurance companies need to make a profit, so the cover is limited accordingly.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
That's all fine. You've not explained how rich people in the UK don't already pay more. Let's take someone on £60k gross. Their NIC contributions (employer + employee) are £10,234.80 a year.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
That's easy. Dutch stuff is better. QED.
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Doesn't really sound all that much different than a tax or national insurance to the people paying it.
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It’s a) much easier to raise the money for the extra spending and b) you do actually have a competitive marketplace
what about this last election makes the forum think it will be easy for the govt to raise more money for ever increasing healthcare?
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I doubt that enforced private healthcare for 'hard working families' is going to be any more popular than tax rises
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Well no, Brits would literally rather die than admit the NHS is no longer fit for purpose.
It’s hard to forget “save the NHS” was literally one of the 3 piece slogan encouraging people to obey lockdown rules. Mental.
You wonder what it would be like if they watched more French TV and less American, but alas.
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Growth and change as far as I can tell.
You are arguing about what you do with the money, rather than how you collect it. RC. It's a perfectly good argument to have, but you would need to think about how you break the NHS up into private companies funded by insurance contributions. Sounds a lot like privatising the NHS to me. Who did you vote for again?
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Gotta pick your priorities and since I subscribe to the Housing Theory of Everything, I had to pick the only party who promised to address said theory.
The evidence is now clear the socialist model, like any socialist model, ends up with chronic underfunding as it’s politically impossible to raise enough money for it.
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You and Stevo. Peas in a pod.
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So put up taxes. You are talking about how it's spent.
Is the Dutch/German/Canadian/Barbudan model better or more efficient?
Dunno. Neither do you.
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But you can’t get elected on a tax raising mandate.
If your insurers all raise their prices, as we’ve seen for other services, what you gonna do?
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I don't know what your point is now.
Is this the 5 minute argument, or the full half hour?
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How is it easier to raise money? From who? If we're all buying health insurance then what relief are people and their employers getting on NIC? How do you charge rich people more for the same health insurance given that risk is not directly related to income?
I'm unclear who is competing for what but supposing it's insurer A can get a hip replacement for £9k instead of £10k. What incentive is there to pass those savings on to the customer and what reassurance is there that the savings are not made by reducing care quality?
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
What happened when all the private power companies raised prices? The government introduced a subsidy.
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Cut your cover. Obviously.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
well yes because we had a populist leader.
France, Germany, Belgium, Holland all spend more on health as a % of GDP and all have better outcomes on the major illnesses.
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So they pay more and it's better.
Can you join the dots for me between that and privatisation?
I suppose one way to avoid profits leaking out to already rich investors, is the government could own it.
Could call it the national health scheme, or NHS.
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Everywhere has a populist. Have a gander at French employer taxes. And Belgian. And then consider the kick back from the merest suggestion that some adjustments might have to be made to keep the system running.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I think a heavily regulated private system can politically allow for more money to be put into healthcare compared to a state owned system where there is always pressure to cut costs.
As the population ages this funding problem will become more and more pronounced and will ultimately lead to Britain having a health service that falls behind other countries in terms of overall quality. As it is beginning to already.
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Heavily regulated private systems. Mmm. Got any examples?
Rail? Water? Power? Telecoms? Busses?
Go to bed.
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Is this thread a Wimblebum match between RC and FA.
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