Tenants next door and a restrictive covenant.

verylonglegs

OK, thought I'd drop a question in here due to the wide range of knowledge this place has available. Neighbours next door are tenants who I believe have breached a restrictive covenant on the property so I'm wondering do I write to the landlord in the hope they will sort things out with minimum fuss or do I go straight to the local planning authority to save finding out they are obstructive or uninterested? I have no idea how agreeable landlords are in dealing with this sort of thing or what the generally considered best course of action there is.

slowmart

You could establish if you are actually in breach of your obligations.

No breach, no problem.

orraloon

Thought it was about next door...?

Can't advise directly. However, I recommend visiting an alt cycling forum yacf.co.uk, 'yet another cycling forum' and seeking opinions there. Often quite sensible inputs on Qs posted, be they legal, medical, technical, et al.

Now then, how long before the BR modbot picks up on this and deletes 🧐

monkimark

Have you spoken to the tenants? They may not be aware of the restrictive covenant.

mrb123

Planning authority won't be interested in covenants - they apply between the parties to the deed and their successors in title so it's not for the authority to get involved. Approach landlord as they will be the one bound by it.

verylonglegs

mrb123 said:

Planning authority won't be interested in covenants - they apply between the parties to the deed and their successors in title so it's not for the authority to get involved. Approach landlord as they will be the one bound by it.

Thank you yes, have just discovered this. It was someone at the estate management company who sent me toward the planning authority, guess it was some customer service bod who just wanted me to go away.

verylonglegs

monkimark said:

Have you spoken to the tenants? They may not be aware of the restrictive covenant.

Let's just say we don't have that kind of relationship.

TheBigBean

verylonglegs said:

mrb123 said:

Planning authority won't be interested in covenants - they apply between the parties to the deed and their successors in title so it's not for the authority to get involved. Approach landlord as they will be the one bound by it.

Thank you yes, have just discovered this. It was someone at the estate management company who sent me toward the planning authority, guess it was some customer service bod who just wanted me to go away.

If it's a restrictive covenant imposed by a previous seller then only they can take action. Depending on what it is, they are probably unlikely to do anything.

For example, a housing developer may put covenants in places that prevent buyers from doing something that in their view would affect the sales values of other houses. Once all the houses are sold, the developer won't care

There could be restrictions imposed by planning though and breaching those would affect the planning permission.

verylonglegs

TheBigBean said:

verylonglegs said:

mrb123 said:

Planning authority won't be interested in covenants - they apply between the parties to the deed and their successors in title so it's not for the authority to get involved. Approach landlord as they will be the one bound by it.

Thank you yes, have just discovered this. It was someone at the estate management company who sent me toward the planning authority, guess it was some customer service bod who just wanted me to go away.

If it's a restrictive covenant imposed by a previous seller then only they can take action. Depending on what it is, they are probably unlikely to do anything.

For example, a housing developer may put covenants in places that prevent buyers from doing something that in their view would affect the sales values of other houses. Once all the houses are sold, the developer won't care

There could be restrictions imposed by planning though and breaching those would affect the planning permission.

Yes after a bit of browsing online I think that is where I am at. It will have to be the 2m fence option then. Thanks to all for contributions.

vincesummerskRoxcBTr

Presumably this about the neighbours and a fence?

monkimark

I reckon the neighbours have started an ostrich farm in the back garden. Hence the need for a 2m fence

First.Aspect

Tree house. Garden office. Gopping extension under permitted development?

verylonglegs

First.Aspect said:

Gopping extension under permitted development?

Give that man a prize. What looks like half a shed constructed from non matching materials stuck on the back of the house, it's truly awful.

However they also have someone regularly sleeping in an equally ugly building at the end of the garden so the landlord will be getting a letter about that.

First.Aspect

You could go the council route for the latter.

May be worth checking for building warrants for the extension - was it applied for, granted, and signed off as completed?

They'll figure out its you pretty quickly though

Stevo_666

oxoman said:

verylonglegs said:

First.Aspect said:

Gopping extension under permitted development?

Give that man a prize. What looks like half a shed constructed from non matching materials stuck on the back of the house, it's truly awful.

However they also have someone regularly sleeping in an equally ugly building at the end of the garden so the landlord will be getting a letter about that.

Don't bother with the landlord just report to the council. Once they get an inkling something fishy is going on they will normally dive in with both feet and sort stuff out. They normally look at sub standard stuff pretty aggressively around my local area. Good luck on getting it sorted.

Yep, if its breach of planning permission then the council will very likely be interested and have the power to sort it.

First.Aspect

It will only be a breach of planning if it isn't permitted development. The main way people fall foul of that for single storey extensions is that it exceeds the permitted % of total floor space. For outbuildings there are considerations if it is within a certain distance of the main dwelling and part of a main elevation as viewed from a road. And building a new dwelling or re-purposing one to be used for accommodation is not allowed. Where the boundary is between effectively having a slumber party in your own garden and it being permanently occupied I have no idea.

Pross

If the extension is part of the habitable dwelling it will almost certainly have needed Building Regs approval unless built by an approved contractor. Surely the landlord will be aware if a tenant has built an extension on their property and presumably would have had to approve it being done? First stop might be a message of ‘are you aware they have done this and does it have Building Regs approval?’ but I’m struggling to see how they (or the letting agent) wouldn’t have noticed.

First.Aspect

You can search most council websites for these, can't you? That would be my first port of call.

orraloon

Can you search for building regs applications and approvals? Yes for planning applications but...?

Edit. Indeed you can! Didn't know that. Just found my own recent one listed on the council website.

Stevo_666

Best to just grass them up and let the council decide.

First.Aspect

orraloon said:

Can you search for building regs applications and approvals? Yes for planning applications but...?

Edit. Indeed you can! Didn't know that. Just found my own recent one listed on the council website.

If Midlothian make the register available, you would imagine it is quite widespread. It isn't a council on the vanguard of anything, other than "largest number of temporary patches" on the roads.

I had to find mine from 2012, for selling the house. You can't easily get hold of the actual documents, but you can see the basic information that it was applied for, etc.

Pross

I would just report it to Building Control. Say it has been recently built and doesn’t look of a quality that would meet Building Regs standards. They would probably contact the landlord. Getting something shonky to comply with Regs is probably harder than applying for retrospective planning. Even proving things like foundations are compliant will take them a fair bit of work and money.

verylonglegs

Pross said:

I would just report it to Building Control. Say it has been recently built and doesn’t look of a quality that would meet Building Regs standards. They would probably contact the landlord. Getting something shonky to comply with Regs is probably harder than applying for retrospective planning. Even proving things like foundations are compliant will take them a fair bit of work and money.

The house belongs to someone in London, I think I met them briefly just over a decade ago when I bought my place and I was left with the impression they just bought up properties like sweeties in the area for investment, the area being semi-rural Norfolk. The guy even asked me if there were many jobs in the area like they had done no research at all. I doubt they've seen the place since and have no idea what is going on, at least I would be surprised if they did.

I've searched the council website and can't find any suggestion of planning permission so I am struggling to decide which way round to go...council first or the landlord, I don't know if the council would contact the occupier or the landlord. At the moment I leaning toward a letter to the landlord along the lines of 'I do not know if you are aware but....and I am looking to report to it the local council.' and see what happens from there.

First.Aspect

Planning is separate, and probably not applicable if it is permitted development. Unless you are in a national park, the place is listed, or in a conservation area, the permitted developments you are allowed without planning are quite eye opening.

You would need to contact building control. If anything, this is about whether the extension meets structural, energy, electrical regulations etc. if it is a DIY bodge job, possibly not.

Even if a building warrant was applied for, it would then need to be signed off as meeting those requirements.

If there's no online register in your area, the advice above about raising a concern with the council is the best option.

First.Aspect

Re read your last post. Why can't you do both? If it was me I'd want to foster a good relationship with the landlord and at least give them a heads up. Doesn't stop you from discretely enquiring with the council.

me-109

You don't see the landlord and sounds like you don't get on with the neighbours so no loss in upsetting them.

First.Aspect

me-109 said:

You don't see the landlord and sounds like you don't get on with the neighbours so no loss in upsetting them.

Dunno about that. Not getting on with your neighbours isn't binary. There's a whole spectrum of not getting along.

Question for the OP - if the extension was of normal construction, or fixed somehow, would that be an acceptable outcome?

rjsterry

Firstly, you describe the neighbours as tenants, not leaseholders. Assuming that's accurate and we're talking about shorthold tenancy, they will have no right at all to extend a building that isn't theirs.

A restrictive covenant will apply to the owner (freeholder or leaseholder). It's their responsibility to ensure that any shorthold tenants observe any restrictions on use of the property

Planning permission is a separate matter. You can look up the limitations of permitted development on the PlanningPortal website and if you think the extension exceeds these you can contact the local planning enforcement team. They will then visit and determine if permission is needed. They'll deal with the owner and may give them an opportunity to apply for retrospective planning consent and to appeal that decision before they get as far as ordering demolition so nothing will happen quickly on that front.

Building Control is another thing again. A different department in your local authority. By the sounds of it there may be multiple contraventions of different parts of the Building Regulations. It will also back to the owner rather than tenants as the responsible person.

rjsterry

First.Aspect said:

me-109 said:

You don't see the landlord and sounds like you don't get on with the neighbours so no loss in upsetting them.

Dunno about that. Not getting on with your neighbours isn't binary. There's a whole spectrum of not getting along.

This. One of our clients is dealing with the fallout between his neighbour and the previous owner who sold to our client about 5 years ago. And even that neighbour is at least fairly civil.

First.Aspect

Does make me think a fence followed by planting some climbers or bamboo or something like that is the best option.

verylonglegs

I'm certainly looking to get the landlord on board as an ally rather than wade in with bluster. A fence would pretty much nullify the extension but the out building is a real problem as it can be seen in all its glory from the rear bedroom. There is a good chance I will be looking to move in a years time and the state of their rear garden and its use is definitely going to cost me which is how I'm going to pitch it to the landlord. Just hope they give a monkeys.

The neighbour on the other side who I get on really well with had an evalution a few months ago to buy an ex partner out and said the estate agent pulled a face when they saw the offending construction so it needs addressing, I'm going to try and have a chat with them in the next few days too.