Job hunting - has it all changed?

MidlandsGrimpeur2

I don't usually whinge but the OH is currently job hunting and I am amazed by the lack of courtesy and professionalism many employers show.

Some of the recent examples include:

- having an interview and then chasing them for 2 months for a response! (was told "sorry, we were really busy").
- invite to interview but then no follow up to actually book a date and time (contacted four people within the same organisation who all said someone would be in touch to arrange).
- Invited to an 'informal chat' and was told this was not part of the interview process only to be then told it was and didn't get offered the job.

She has just interviewed for another role, was told she would have an answer last week at the latest and no reply.

Having not interviewed for a job for some years, is this standard practice now? I have never experienced anything like this when applying for jobs over the years, did I just get lucky?

shirley_basso

Depends what she does and in what industry and how desperate the company are to fill the role.

At my company we don't hold "open positions" all year round - we hire when we need to and go as quickly as we can. We often get tons of applications - we try to hold 4-5 first round interviews then go from there but due to volume of candidates it can take a while.

rick_chasey

Hi Midlands.

It entirely depends on the kind of jobs you're going after, but in my own experience with my own job searches, yes, absolutely, no feedback, no "sorry but no" communication etc is quite common.

That is, unfortunately, very common nowadays, though certainly not the only way it's done (and certainly not how I handle the processes I am in charge of)

Furthermore, the current state of the market (which I have some view on) is very tough. All interview processes are slowing down, appetite is shrinking, and despite the tight labour market, firms are really short on hiring budgets, so there is an awful lot of tyre kicking, and not much hiring.

pep.fermi

Seems all usual practice to me.
Not condoning it though.

Pross

MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:

I don't usually whinge but the OH is currently job hunting and I am amazed by the lack of courtesy and professionalism many employers show.

Some of the recent examples include:

- having an interview and then chasing them for 2 months for a response! (was told "sorry, we were really busy").
- invite to interview but then no follow up to actually book a date and time (contacted four people within the same organisation who all said someone would be in touch to arrange).
- Invited to an 'informal chat' and was told this was not part of the interview process only to be then told it was and didn't get offered the job.

She has just interviewed for another role, was told she would have an answer last week at the latest and no reply.

Having not interviewed for a job for some years, is this standard practice now? I have never experienced anything like this when applying for jobs over the years, did I just get lucky?

Most of those seem very familiar from my own job searches of the past decade. The worst was a headhunter who approached me for a senior role at a new office a company were opening. I had an initial chat with him, then a more formal interview and also had to submit a video interview answering some online questions (which was horrible). In the face to face interviews with him he'd said I had all the skills they were looking for in the role and even suggested I increase the pay I was looking for as the amount I'd said was below the minimum of the range they were looking to pay! I didn't hear anything for a good few weeks but didn't want to chase. In the end I'd been offered a few interviews elsewhere and decided to call the headhunter, he said the role was still open and the client was impressed with my CV and interviews but they were just trying to get an MD for the office sorted and a few other things in place before making other senior appointments. That was now over 18 months ago and in the meantime I've moved on and still never heard anything further. Very strange behaviour considering they'd initially approached me.

dannbodge

Our company is exactly the same, a lot of it is due to the red tape around hiring people and D,U&I rules.

It's just as bad, even for internal job openings.

Pross

I've had colleagues in the past who interview people just to 'see what is out there' and they don't have the budget to actually take on an extra employee (or in one case telling me I could take someone on, I interviewed a few people and got a draft offer letter ready to send to my preferred candidate only to be told there was no authorisation for an extra person). I suspect I've been on the receiving end of the same at other companies.

First.Aspect

dannbodge said:

Our company is exactly the same, a lot of it is due to the red tape around hiring people and D,U&I rules.

It's just as bad, even for internal job openings.

Doesn't explain the inability to send emails or offer common courtesy.

If we get CVs out of the blue, we don't reply. Otherwise I believe that we do provide applicants with updates, rather than just leave them hanging.

pblakeney

Pross said:

...That was now over 18 months ago and in the meantime I've moved on and still never heard anything further. Very strange behaviour considering they'd initially approached me.

I once had a letter telling me that I had been successful in my application for a position but I wasn't to resign my current position until I received a starting date.
This was in 1987 and I had family members staying at that address until 2016.
No letter was ever received. Just as well I wasn't holding my breath waiting.

Jezyboy

I think it's largely pot luck as to the company you apply to.

If it's somewhere with overworked staff and no slack courtesy emails to unsuccessful applicants are going to be one of those things that fall through the cracks. That can be the case at small or large companies.

The casual conversation that's not part of the application process (but obviously was) is a new one on me and potentially sounds like someone trying to bypass HR processes.

me-109

Don't know anyone that can go near a hiring process, including advertising, agency involvement or direct HR without some sort of recruitment authorisation process.

Responses are rubbish and have been for a while. I used to be extremely successful at interviews, at least 8n getting an offer even if I'd decided it wasn't for me. However, I'm now in the world of privacy and infosec where the remit can be vary varied across similar roles and demand different backgrounds in the technical-to-compliance scale.

In 2018 I was finishing a fixed term contract that had immediately followed redundancy after many years with one employer, so was job hunting through the year. By October I'd had 21 interviews at 18 organisations, direct or via agents. At the point of analysing my stats I had 4 that were still close enough to be 'in progress' but only 8 formal unsuccessful responses. So 6 from 18 said nothing. Two of those that did respond took ages - 2 and 3 months respectively.

veronese68

Had my first job interview in 17 years a couple of months ago, haven't heard anything back. Not replying to every application I understand, not replying after someone's taken time out of their day for an interview is just plain rude. But not unusual it seems.

ugo.santalucia

I interviewed for an Irish University not long ago for a highly paid lectureship. The interview lasted about 20 minutes of the advertised 45 minutes on Teams. I presented for about 15 minutes, then they asked me some generic random questions. it did seem like they couldn’t wait to go for lunch or something. It was clear it was all a set up, they had a candidate they wanted and they had to make up the numbers by shortlisting other folks without the necessary requisites.
In the end, they never came back to me and I had to chase them, just to get some closure to the all thing. I was tempted to write an email to the Vice Chancellor, pointing to the complete lack of professionalism. Fortunately I did not have to fly there, or I would have been livid.

MidlandsGrimpeur2

It was clear it was all a set up, they had a candidate they wanted and they had to make up the numbers by shortlisting other folks without the necessary requisites.

Yes, I think a couple of the jobs my wife has applied for have been similar Ugo, having myself been at organisations where I know the whole hiring process is a charade because an internal candidate is already basically getting the job, I find it incredibly frustrating when this happens.

MidlandsGrimpeur2

I've had colleagues in the past who interview people just to 'see what is out there' and they don't have the budget to actually take on an extra employee (or in one case telling me I could take someone on, I interviewed a few people and got a draft offer letter ready to send to my preferred candidate only to be told there was no authorisation for an extra person). I suspect I've been on the receiving end of the same at other companies.

This is a new one on me @Pross . What an absolute waste of everyone's time. It is these kind of practices that I find annoying. I know it is not me applying in this instance but seeing her having to jump through hoops with these applications, particularly when some of these jobs may not be as they seem is annoying.

MidlandsGrimpeur2

Thanks all for the replies so far, lots of interesting experiences and gives me a bit more of an idea on what goes on behind the scenes.

I think the reason I have grown so frustrated is that my wife is mainly applying for jobs in the charity sector and Further Education. Having worked in both sectors myself, I am used to employer's (once you get to interview stage) responding quickly with decisions and also providing feedback when unsuccessful, certainly that has been my experience over the years. It appears that this no longer is the case which has surprised me.

As pointed out by many, it is just a common courtesy as far as I am concerned, particularly once you have actually interviewed someone and met them face to face.

ddraver

Given the abuse Rick takes here about being a Millenial it is occasionally rather funny when the rest of you find out what the world is actually like for Millenials...

Pross

Eh?

Jezyboy

Pross said:

Eh?

I assume the point is that for millennials this is just the job hunting process, we haven't been party to any "change".

Stevo_666

ddraver said:

Given the abuse Rick takes here about being a Millenial it is occasionally rather funny when the rest of you find out what the world is actually like for Millenials...

Is it only Millenials who are looking for jobs?

thistle_

For my current job the company's HR dept messed everything up.

10 years later everything's changed several times and they're still messing things up.

Feedback from the few people we've managed to recruit is that the communication from HR/recruitment is terrible.

We had someone turn up to work in our team a few months ago and nobody had told us they had accepted the job and were starting.

It wouldn't surprise me if they don't get back to the majority of applicants.

pblakeney

Jezyboy said:

Pross said:

Eh?

I assume the point is that for millennials this is just the job hunting process, we haven't been party to any "change".

Would I be wrong in assuming that HR is full of millennials making it the way it is?

briantrumpet

Am I a bit weird in never really having had a proper job interview?

Well, I suppose I had one, for a part-time job with a charity I didn't really want, and got turned down promptly. Otherwise I just seem to have sneaked into jobs, or been self-employed (which has been my major income since university). I seem to have made a habit of being in the right place at the right time, and knowing the right people.

But then, I suppose, I've never had a proper job. I mean, I get paid for blowing raspberries, and waving my arms about, after all.

Jezyboy

pblakeney said:

Jezyboy said:

Pross said:

Eh?

I assume the point is that for millennials this is just the job hunting process, we haven't been party to any "change".

Would I be wrong in assuming that HR is full of millennials making it the way it is?

I'd guess that when I graduated it was more full of Gen Xers...

Either way, I've never heard anyone ever have a single good word for human resources!

First.Aspect

Stevo_666 said:

ddraver said:

Given the abuse Rick takes here about being a Millenial it is occasionally rather funny when the rest of you find out what the world is actually like for Millenials...

Is it only Millenials who are looking for jobs?

Yes. The boomers stopped working during COVID and the rest of us already have jobs.

First.Aspect

briantrumpet said:

Am I a bit weird in never really having had a proper job interview?

Well, I suppose I had one, for a part-time job with a charity I didn't really want, and got turned down promptly. Otherwise I just seem to have sneaked into jobs, or been self-employed (which has been my major income since university). I seem to have made a habit of being in the right place at the right time, and knowing the right people.

But then, I suppose, I've never had a proper job. I mean, I get paid for blowing raspberries, and waving my arms about, after all.

pblakeney said:

Jezyboy said:

Pross said:

Eh?

I assume the point is that for millennials this is just the job hunting process, we haven't been party to any "change".

Would I be wrong in assuming that the world is full of millennials making it the way it is?

Ftfy

MidlandsGrimpeur2

Cheers @oxoman Yes, the OH worked in a College prior to her most recent job and that rings true. Her Manager and the others in her department seemed to be in positions way beyond their experience and skill level which is why she left. I am in two minds about whether going back to FE is a wise decision, but it is her decision to make I guess.

bobmcstuff

Pross said:

MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:

I don't usually whinge but the OH is currently job hunting and I am amazed by the lack of courtesy and professionalism many employers show.

Some of the recent examples include:

- having an interview and then chasing them for 2 months for a response! (was told "sorry, we were really busy").
- invite to interview but then no follow up to actually book a date and time (contacted four people within the same organisation who all said someone would be in touch to arrange).
- Invited to an 'informal chat' and was told this was not part of the interview process only to be then told it was and didn't get offered the job.

She has just interviewed for another role, was told she would have an answer last week at the latest and no reply.

Having not interviewed for a job for some years, is this standard practice now? I have never experienced anything like this when applying for jobs over the years, did I just get lucky?

Most of those seem very familiar from my own job searches of the past decade. The worst was a headhunter who approached me for a senior role at a new office a company were opening. I had an initial chat with him, then a more formal interview and also had to submit a video interview answering some online questions (which was horrible). In the face to face interviews with him he'd said I had all the skills they were looking for in the role and even suggested I increase the pay I was looking for as the amount I'd said was below the minimum of the range they were looking to pay! I didn't hear anything for a good few weeks but didn't want to chase. In the end I'd been offered a few interviews elsewhere and decided to call the headhunter, he said the role was still open and the client was impressed with my CV and interviews but they were just trying to get an MD for the office sorted and a few other things in place before making other senior appointments. That was now over 18 months ago and in the meantime I've moved on and still never heard anything further. Very strange behaviour considering they'd initially approached me.

Was this an internal headhunter or a recruitment consultant? Sounds to me like a recruitment consultant who thought he might be able to get a bit of commission from you but may not have been completely transparent - you have no real way of knowing what the recruiter has been saying to the company and they can be a bit unscrupulous (no offence to any recruiters here... Rick maybe? Obviously there are good ones).

We always try and give feedback one way or the other and we have a recruitment company on retainer who we trust. But even still, it can be hard to give feedback as timely as you'd like, depending the role you're hiring and who you want to have involved it can sometimes be hard to be as quick as I would prefer if I was the candidate.

bobmcstuff

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

ddraver said:

Given the abuse Rick takes here about being a Millenial it is occasionally rather funny when the rest of you find out what the world is actually like for Millenials...

Is it only Millenials who are looking for jobs?

Yes. The boomers stopped working during COVID and the rest of us already have jobs.

The youngest millennials are 27 or so, the people entering the workplace now are gen Z. The oldest are in their forties - current age range would be 27ish to 42 or 43ish. I.e., probably the age range in which you would expect people to be at their most productive etc (and a bit older of course).

I'm 35 so smack in the middle of the usual definition.

There seems to be this assumption that milennials are all twenty or something!

pblakeney

bobmcstuff said:

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

ddraver said:

Given the abuse Rick takes here about being a Millenial it is occasionally rather funny when the rest of you find out what the world is actually like for Millenials...

Is it only Millenials who are looking for jobs?

Yes. The boomers stopped working during COVID and the rest of us already have jobs.

The youngest millennials are 27 or so, the people entering the workplace now are gen Z. The oldest are in their forties - current age range would be 27ish to 42 or 43ish. I.e., probably the age range in which you would expect people to be at their most productive etc (and a bit older of course).

I'm 35 so smack in the middle of the usual definition.

There seems to be this assumption that milennials are all twenty or something!

That was the assumption 10 years ago. 🤣

First.Aspect

bobmcstuff said:

First.Aspect said:

Stevo_666 said:

ddraver said:

Given the abuse Rick takes here about being a Millenial it is occasionally rather funny when the rest of you find out what the world is actually like for Millenials...

Is it only Millenials who are looking for jobs?

Yes. The boomers stopped working during COVID and the rest of us already have jobs.

The youngest millennials are 27 or so, the people entering the workplace now are gen Z. The oldest are in their forties - current age range would be 27ish to 42 or 43ish. I.e., probably the age range in which you would expect people to be at their most productive etc (and a bit older of course).

I'm 35 so smack in the middle of the usual definition.

There seems to be this assumption that milennials are all twenty or something!

They always used to be 20.