Dual national UK passport renewal

Anyone with any recent experience with renewing their uk passport as a dual national?

Doing one soon and the UK govt is demanding the other non-uk passport as part of the application.

I am tempted to just not a send it in; don’t really see why they need to know.

Anyone with any experience? I have read stories of dual nationals being treated badly by uk immigration so if they don’t need to know I don’t really want them to know.

Comments

  • drhaggis
    drhaggis Posts: 1,150
    edited November 2023
    My sons are dual nationals. I had to renew my youngest's passport a couple of years ago and he was required his other passport. This hadn't happened to us before. Given HO knows the person's a dual citizen from the basis of the birth certificate, we decided to comply. I think we argued against submitting his physical passport, and submitted home-made photocopies instead.

    As a result of this, his passport's main page has a large aclaratory note stating he's a dual citizen of another country.

    I am pretty sure some countries expect their citizens to always keep hold of their passports, so sending them away is unlawful.

    EDIT: my eldest's passport, last renewed pre Brexit day, has no such notes.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,129
    drhaggis said:



    I am pretty sure some countries expect their citizens to always keep hold of their passports, so sending them away is unlawful.

    If that were true, the whole global visa system wouldn't work.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 74,525
    edited November 2023
    Yeah. I think I will have to send it as you now have to declare if you hold any other nationalities. I don’t think lying is a sensible option.

    It is rather worrying the direction of travel here.

    UK is not alone in this
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,129
    Why is it worrying? You are new to having dual citizenship, but it can cause problems, so having them cross-referenced might help.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 74,525

    Why is it worrying? You are new to having dual citizenship, but it can cause problems, so having them cross-referenced might help.

    Not new for me. Never had to send anything off before. Nor is it my passport fwiw
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,129

    Why is it worrying? You are new to having dual citizenship, but it can cause problems, so having them cross-referenced might help.

    Not new for me. Never had to send anything off before. Nor is it my passport fwiw
    I thought you only got it when the Netherlands dropped their restrictions after Brexit?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 74,525

    Why is it worrying? You are new to having dual citizenship, but it can cause problems, so having them cross-referenced might help.

    Not new for me. Never had to send anything off before. Nor is it my passport fwiw
    I thought you only got it when the Netherlands dropped their restrictions after Brexit?
    Under 18s are allowed dual.
  • drhaggis
    drhaggis Posts: 1,150

    Why is it worrying? You are new to having dual citizenship, but it can cause problems, so having them cross-referenced might help.

    It is worrying because it is a very visual mark of "second class citizenship". It is second class because the last 10 years show the HO is happy to both withdraw british citizenship without judicial review, and walk into dark grey areas of the law.

    Do I honestly think this is likely to happen to either my son, or RC's acquaintance? Nope. But the government's rhethoric is very worrying nonetheless.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 28,463
    Based on the record of the HO over the past decade, I'd say administrative f*** up is more likely than any deliberate act.
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  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,757
    edited November 2023

    don’t really see why they need to know.

    This is my take on it as well - what business is it of theirs, it's your passport after all.

    The time before last I handled the renewal, and didn't make mention of it, but earlier this year my partner handled the latest renewal, and she did mention it.
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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 74,525
    daniel_b said:

    don’t really see why they need to know.

    This is my tale on it as well - what business is it of theirs, it's your passport after all.

    The time before last I handled the renewal, and didn't make mention of it, but earlier this year my partner handled the latest renewal, and she did mention it.
    i think because they are now explicitly asking you to declare you have or haven't any other passports from other countries, you kind of have to, else you're lying on the application.

    Grr.

    You can just imagine if you end up in some trouble abroad, the UK home office washing their hands, declaring that the other country pick up the mess.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,129
    daniel_b said:

    don’t really see why they need to know.

    This is my tale on it as well - what business is it of theirs, it's your passport after all.

    The time before last I handled the renewal, and didn't make mention of it, but earlier this year my partner handled the latest renewal, and she did mention it.
    I think it is a new thing.

    I had to pay £250 recently to the UK government to write a letter saying that there was no record of my partner being naturalised. You lot get it easy!
  • daniel_b said:

    don’t really see why they need to know.

    This is my tale on it as well - what business is it of theirs, it's your passport after all.

    The time before last I handled the renewal, and didn't make mention of it, but earlier this year my partner handled the latest renewal, and she did mention it.
    i think because they are now explicitly asking you to declare you have or haven't any other passports from other countries, you kind of have to, else you're lying on the application.

    Grr.

    You can just imagine if you end up in some trouble abroad, the UK home office washing their hands, declaring that the other country pick up the mess.
    what if you have another citizenship, but not another passport… my wife is in that position… doesn’t have to renew in the near future, but eventually she will

    left the forum March 2023
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,129

    daniel_b said:

    don’t really see why they need to know.

    This is my tale on it as well - what business is it of theirs, it's your passport after all.

    The time before last I handled the renewal, and didn't make mention of it, but earlier this year my partner handled the latest renewal, and she did mention it.
    i think because they are now explicitly asking you to declare you have or haven't any other passports from other countries, you kind of have to, else you're lying on the application.

    Grr.

    You can just imagine if you end up in some trouble abroad, the UK home office washing their hands, declaring that the other country pick up the mess.
    what if you have another citizenship, but not another passport… my wife is in that position… doesn’t have to renew in the near future, but eventually she will

    Think it is only unexpired ones.
  • daniel_b said:

    don’t really see why they need to know.

    This is my tale on it as well - what business is it of theirs, it's your passport after all.

    The time before last I handled the renewal, and didn't make mention of it, but earlier this year my partner handled the latest renewal, and she did mention it.
    i think because they are now explicitly asking you to declare you have or haven't any other passports from other countries, you kind of have to, else you're lying on the application.

    Grr.

    You can just imagine if you end up in some trouble abroad, the UK home office washing their hands, declaring that the other country pick up the mess.
    what if you have another citizenship, but not another passport… my wife is in that position… doesn’t have to renew in the near future, but eventually she will

    Think it is only unexpired ones.
    so she would not have to send anything then…

    left the forum March 2023
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,156

    daniel_b said:

    don’t really see why they need to know.

    This is my tale on it as well - what business is it of theirs, it's your passport after all.

    The time before last I handled the renewal, and didn't make mention of it, but earlier this year my partner handled the latest renewal, and she did mention it.
    i think because they are now explicitly asking you to declare you have or haven't any other passports from other countries, you kind of have to, else you're lying on the application.

    Grr.

    You can just imagine if you end up in some trouble abroad, the UK home office washing their hands, declaring that the other country pick up the mess.
    what if you have another citizenship, but not another passport… my wife is in that position… doesn’t have to renew in the near future, but eventually she will

    daniel_b said:

    don’t really see why they need to know.

    This is my tale on it as well - what business is it of theirs, it's your passport after all.

    The time before last I handled the renewal, and didn't make mention of it, but earlier this year my partner handled the latest renewal, and she did mention it.
    i think because they are now explicitly asking you to declare you have or haven't any other passports from other countries, you kind of have to, else you're lying on the application.

    Grr.

    You can just imagine if you end up in some trouble abroad, the UK home office washing their hands, declaring that the other country pick up the mess.
    what if you have another citizenship, but not another passport… my wife is in that position… doesn’t have to renew in the near future, but eventually she will

    That would be interesting as everyone with an Irish born parent has Irish citizenship automatically.....
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,555

    daniel_b said:

    don’t really see why they need to know.

    This is my tale on it as well - what business is it of theirs, it's your passport after all.

    The time before last I handled the renewal, and didn't make mention of it, but earlier this year my partner handled the latest renewal, and she did mention it.
    i think because they are now explicitly asking you to declare you have or haven't any other passports from other countries, you kind of have to, else you're lying on the application.

    Grr.

    You can just imagine if you end up in some trouble abroad, the UK home office washing their hands, declaring that the other country pick up the mess.
    what if you have another citizenship, but not another passport… my wife is in that position… doesn’t have to renew in the near future, but eventually she will

    daniel_b said:

    don’t really see why they need to know.

    This is my tale on it as well - what business is it of theirs, it's your passport after all.

    The time before last I handled the renewal, and didn't make mention of it, but earlier this year my partner handled the latest renewal, and she did mention it.
    i think because they are now explicitly asking you to declare you have or haven't any other passports from other countries, you kind of have to, else you're lying on the application.

    Grr.

    You can just imagine if you end up in some trouble abroad, the UK home office washing their hands, declaring that the other country pick up the mess.
    what if you have another citizenship, but not another passport… my wife is in that position… doesn’t have to renew in the near future, but eventually she will

    That would be interesting as everyone with an Irish born parent has Irish citizenship automatically.....
    There are probably quite a few people of various nationalities in a similar position. When I went to the Italian Consulate to try and sort out my national service there were several people there that had an Italian father and claimed not to be aware they were considered Italian. I've not had an Italian passport but have a certificate confirming I am an Italian citizen.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,129

    daniel_b said:

    don’t really see why they need to know.

    This is my tale on it as well - what business is it of theirs, it's your passport after all.

    The time before last I handled the renewal, and didn't make mention of it, but earlier this year my partner handled the latest renewal, and she did mention it.
    i think because they are now explicitly asking you to declare you have or haven't any other passports from other countries, you kind of have to, else you're lying on the application.

    Grr.

    You can just imagine if you end up in some trouble abroad, the UK home office washing their hands, declaring that the other country pick up the mess.
    what if you have another citizenship, but not another passport… my wife is in that position… doesn’t have to renew in the near future, but eventually she will

    daniel_b said:

    don’t really see why they need to know.

    This is my tale on it as well - what business is it of theirs, it's your passport after all.

    The time before last I handled the renewal, and didn't make mention of it, but earlier this year my partner handled the latest renewal, and she did mention it.
    i think because they are now explicitly asking you to declare you have or haven't any other passports from other countries, you kind of have to, else you're lying on the application.

    Grr.

    You can just imagine if you end up in some trouble abroad, the UK home office washing their hands, declaring that the other country pick up the mess.
    what if you have another citizenship, but not another passport… my wife is in that position… doesn’t have to renew in the near future, but eventually she will

    That would be interesting as everyone with an Irish born parent has Irish citizenship automatically.....
    There are probably quite a few people of various nationalities in a similar position. When I went to the Italian Consulate to try and sort out my national service there were several people there that had an Italian father and claimed not to be aware they were considered Italian. I've not had an Italian passport but have a certificate confirming I am an Italian citizen.
    And what happened to the national service?
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,555

    daniel_b said:

    don’t really see why they need to know.

    This is my tale on it as well - what business is it of theirs, it's your passport after all.

    The time before last I handled the renewal, and didn't make mention of it, but earlier this year my partner handled the latest renewal, and she did mention it.
    i think because they are now explicitly asking you to declare you have or haven't any other passports from other countries, you kind of have to, else you're lying on the application.

    Grr.

    You can just imagine if you end up in some trouble abroad, the UK home office washing their hands, declaring that the other country pick up the mess.
    what if you have another citizenship, but not another passport… my wife is in that position… doesn’t have to renew in the near future, but eventually she will

    daniel_b said:

    don’t really see why they need to know.

    This is my tale on it as well - what business is it of theirs, it's your passport after all.

    The time before last I handled the renewal, and didn't make mention of it, but earlier this year my partner handled the latest renewal, and she did mention it.
    i think because they are now explicitly asking you to declare you have or haven't any other passports from other countries, you kind of have to, else you're lying on the application.

    Grr.

    You can just imagine if you end up in some trouble abroad, the UK home office washing their hands, declaring that the other country pick up the mess.
    what if you have another citizenship, but not another passport… my wife is in that position… doesn’t have to renew in the near future, but eventually she will

    That would be interesting as everyone with an Irish born parent has Irish citizenship automatically.....
    There are probably quite a few people of various nationalities in a similar position. When I went to the Italian Consulate to try and sort out my national service there were several people there that had an Italian father and claimed not to be aware they were considered Italian. I've not had an Italian passport but have a certificate confirming I am an Italian citizen.
    And what happened to the national service?
    Long story short, I didn't do it.
    My folks never got me an Italian passport as they didn't want me to do national service. But, my sister moved to Italy after university, some years later, when I was 30, the Carabinieri turned up with a warrant for my arrest as I was listed as AWOL. Luckily I wasn't there on holiday at the time. 3 days at the Italian consulate getting it sorted, eventually got an exemption. Asked why they didn't contact me when I was 18 and they said they had. Told them I'd never had a letter, was told they didn't have my address. I could see my parents address on the paper in front of them and queried this. Classic bit of Italian bureaucracy here, we couldn't write to you there as it's not registered as your address. So how did they try to contact me? They said they posted a notice in the barracks in Verona, I laughed at them.
    One option offered to me was to renounce my Italian citizenship, I nearly did so as we were all in the EU so it wouldn't make any difference. Fortunately I didn't as before I could renounce it they had to decide how Italian I was so I could renounce it to the appropriate extent. I kid you not.
    Lots of lads in the consulate with Italian fathers, although they themselves had never set foot in Italy were considered Italian. At the time if you were born abroad to an Italian father you were considered Italian. If your mother was Italian it didn't apply. Now applies to both I believe.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,129

    daniel_b said:

    don’t really see why they need to know.

    This is my tale on it as well - what business is it of theirs, it's your passport after all.

    The time before last I handled the renewal, and didn't make mention of it, but earlier this year my partner handled the latest renewal, and she did mention it.
    i think because they are now explicitly asking you to declare you have or haven't any other passports from other countries, you kind of have to, else you're lying on the application.

    Grr.

    You can just imagine if you end up in some trouble abroad, the UK home office washing their hands, declaring that the other country pick up the mess.
    what if you have another citizenship, but not another passport… my wife is in that position… doesn’t have to renew in the near future, but eventually she will

    daniel_b said:

    don’t really see why they need to know.

    This is my tale on it as well - what business is it of theirs, it's your passport after all.

    The time before last I handled the renewal, and didn't make mention of it, but earlier this year my partner handled the latest renewal, and she did mention it.
    i think because they are now explicitly asking you to declare you have or haven't any other passports from other countries, you kind of have to, else you're lying on the application.

    Grr.

    You can just imagine if you end up in some trouble abroad, the UK home office washing their hands, declaring that the other country pick up the mess.
    what if you have another citizenship, but not another passport… my wife is in that position… doesn’t have to renew in the near future, but eventually she will

    That would be interesting as everyone with an Irish born parent has Irish citizenship automatically.....
    There are probably quite a few people of various nationalities in a similar position. When I went to the Italian Consulate to try and sort out my national service there were several people there that had an Italian father and claimed not to be aware they were considered Italian. I've not had an Italian passport but have a certificate confirming I am an Italian citizen.
    And what happened to the national service?
    Long story short, I didn't do it.
    My folks never got me an Italian passport as they didn't want me to do national service. But, my sister moved to Italy after university, some years later, when I was 30, the Carabinieri turned up with a warrant for my arrest as I was listed as AWOL. Luckily I wasn't there on holiday at the time. 3 days at the Italian consulate getting it sorted, eventually got an exemption. Asked why they didn't contact me when I was 18 and they said they had. Told them I'd never had a letter, was told they didn't have my address. I could see my parents address on the paper in front of them and queried this. Classic bit of Italian bureaucracy here, we couldn't write to you there as it's not registered as your address. So how did they try to contact me? They said they posted a notice in the barracks in Verona, I laughed at them.
    One option offered to me was to renounce my Italian citizenship, I nearly did so as we were all in the EU so it wouldn't make any difference. Fortunately I didn't as before I could renounce it they had to decide how Italian I was so I could renounce it to the appropriate extent. I kid you not.
    Lots of lads in the consulate with Italian fathers, although they themselves had never set foot in Italy were considered Italian. At the time if you were born abroad to an Italian father you were considered Italian. If your mother was Italian it didn't apply. Now applies to both I believe.
    Nice story. You're not the first unknown Italian I have heard this from.
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,757

    One option offered to me was to renounce my Italian citizenship, I nearly did so as we were all in the EU so it wouldn't make any difference. Fortunately I didn't

    What a close call, thank goodness - can you sort yourself out an Italian passport now then.......?
    Obtain them for any children too?

    Beautiful country to move/retire to non?

    My brother has Italian citizenship I believe, and is planning to apply for a passport in due course mostly so he has a decent one.
    He very much loves it there.
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  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,555
    daniel_b said:

    One option offered to me was to renounce my Italian citizenship, I nearly did so as we were all in the EU so it wouldn't make any difference. Fortunately I didn't

    What a close call, thank goodness - can you sort yourself out an Italian passport now then.......?
    Obtain them for any children too?

    Beautiful country to move/retire to non?

    My brother has Italian citizenship I believe, and is planning to apply for a passport in due course mostly so he has a decent one.
    He very much loves it there.
    Yes, and yes to the important first questuins, but not necessarily to the third. Italy is a beautiful country and I love visiting, but I don't know I could live there. I've become too anglicised perhaps, but the amount of faffing to get anything done there does my head in.
  • daniel_b said:

    One option offered to me was to renounce my Italian citizenship, I nearly did so as we were all in the EU so it wouldn't make any difference. Fortunately I didn't

    What a close call, thank goodness - can you sort yourself out an Italian passport now then.......?
    Obtain them for any children too?

    Beautiful country to move/retire to non?

    My brother has Italian citizenship I believe, and is planning to apply for a passport in due course mostly so he has a decent one.
    He very much loves it there.
    Yes, and yes to the important first questuins, but not necessarily to the third. Italy is a beautiful country and I love visiting, but I don't know I could live there. I've become too anglicised perhaps, but the amount of faffing to get anything done there does my head in.
    I tend to agree and I have lived the first 27 years of my life in Italy. There is also the small matter of climate change. It is becoming difficult to live there in the summer months, which now go from June into almost October, you’d have to find a place by the sea… as inland is unbearable.
    The ever present Fascist nostalgia is also something difficult to accept.

    left the forum March 2023
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,555
    Yes, the bigger towns in summer are unbearable. That's why we tend to go up into the hills or mountains.