Cycling League

wallace_and_gromit

roscoe said:

bobmcstuff said:

poweredbyidris said:

A few thoughts

1. Cycling isn't as popular as we think outside the really big races. Some races pay TV companies to broadcast footage.
2. A league system essentially requires the fans to forget about who wins individual races, and concentrate on who wins the overall title, otherwise nothing changes. Unlikely given the long history of the sport that that will happen
3. The TdF is by far the biggest race in terms of popularity. Without it a new 'league' would be at a huge disadvantage, and I can't see ASO giving it up
4. Charging spectators at the roadside is a non-starter and not just because of the logistics. Very few will pay to watch a few seconds of sport where many will have no real context of what's going on. Also you'd be very, very unlikely to see the key moment.

You could charge some spectators for some things - like somewhere mountainside with a bar and a big screen or similar, or when you have finishes in stadia. There was something like that on the Angliru, and I was disappointed not to have a ticket... Mainly for the bar and the big screen, if you are standing at the roadside on a mountain stage it can be tricky having a good live stream so you just get riders coming past with limited context - I'd definitely have paid to be able to see a big screen as well.

You can't charge all roadside spectators though I agree, that's completely un-policeable for a start.

Hospitality tents out on the route, like they do in Belgium

Perfect. More p*ssed up fans to verbally abuse riders and let off flares in their faces!

Though a tent selling hot chocolate etc. would have been very welcome for the World RR in Harrogate.

mididoctors

andyrac said:

Like motorsport, the World Tour should be run by one company/Promoter; they decide the races on it, the calendar, charge hosting fees, sell TV rights - and it all goes to the teams. In theory.....

In fact, we now see it with the MTB World Cup - ESO/Discovery/WB do everything....organise, promote, televise, etc

The problem is ASO, RSC, Flanders Classics wouldn't want to be subserviant to another 'organiser'/Promoter. So it won't happen.

I think the communities and people living next to roads these races are run on should have some say ...just a thought before venture capitalists try and monetise public roads paid for by public purse

mididoctors

F1 is run on private tracks barring a few exceptions ( and Monaco is a crap race because it doesn't jive with current car tech)

mididoctors

If part of the deal venture capital is used to build road infrastructure too im all for it

wallace_and_gromit

mididoctors said:

If part of the deal venture capital is used to build road infrastructure too im all for it

Of no great relevance, during the "Packer Rebellion" in cricket in the late 70s (*) the rebel matches weren't allowed to use traditional grounds, so football stadiums were rented, with pitches that had been prepared elsewhere "dropped in" to suitably sized holes dug in the football pitch. So there is a precedent for additional infrastructure being developed via breakaway sport factions.

(*) Some spat over who owned the TV rights and who should benefit from increasing TV-related revenues.

mididoctors

wallace_and_gromit said:

mididoctors said:

If part of the deal venture capital is used to build road infrastructure too im all for it

Of no great relevance, during the "Packer Rebellion" in cricket in the late 70s (*) the rebel matches weren't allowed to use traditional grounds, so football stadiums were rented, with pitches that had been prepared elsewhere "dropped in" to suitably sized holes dug in the football pitch. So there is a precedent for additional infrastructure being developed via breakaway sport factions.

(*) Some spat over who owned the TV rights and who should benefit from increasing TV-related revenues.

God I'm old . I remember that as a kid

wallace_and_gromit

mididoctors said:

wallace_and_gromit said:

mididoctors said:

If part of the deal venture capital is used to build road infrastructure too im all for it

Of no great relevance, during the "Packer Rebellion" in cricket in the late 70s (*) the rebel matches weren't allowed to use traditional grounds, so football stadiums were rented, with pitches that had been prepared elsewhere "dropped in" to suitably sized holes dug in the football pitch. So there is a precedent for additional infrastructure being developed via breakaway sport factions.

(*) Some spat over who owned the TV rights and who should benefit from increasing TV-related revenues.

God I'm old . I remember that as a kid

I find it equally sobering to realise that the cricketing "Gods" of my youth are either no longer with us, fat old men or grizzled "grey beards". Even David Gower is due for his bus pass soon!

Likewise my athletics heros. I fancy Daley Thompson would see me off, but I'd fancy my chances against Steve Ovett these days!

rick_chasey

Most of the money seems to come from the teams; I wonder if there is a tax on WT teams to pay for the WT races and if not, if one is viable?

mididoctors

Talking of money wiggle/CRC have gone bust .... not a great sign

DeVlaeminck

roscoe said:

No_Ta_Doctor said:

roscoe said:

The current model needs to change, teams and race organisers need financial stability, not the heavy reliance on sponsorship we have just now.

Nobody who has ever said this has ever come with a convincing argument for where this money should come from

At least they're looking at it and not accepting that this is the way it's always been. Chasing sponsors every 2 -3 years isn't a convincing way to be sustainable.

Do you think it's a sustainable model?

It's been unsustainable for over 100 years. .

DeVlaeminck

wallace_and_gromit said:

Super League Triathlon have done something similar, I think the PTO have something set up as

The Ironman series appears to be viable on a long term standalone basis, which it out to be as Ironman entry fees and merch costs are extortionate. (But the Weekend Warriors like the cache of being an Ironman, as would I if my body would take it!)
well.

I thought about doing one too but didn't fancy the getting the logo tattooed on my calf bit.

webboo

DeVlaeminck said:

wallace_and_gromit said:

Super League Triathlon have done something similar, I think the PTO have something set up as

The Ironman series appears to be viable on a long term standalone basis, which it out to be as Ironman entry fees and merch costs are extortionate. (But the Weekend Warriors like the cache of being an Ironman, as would I if my body would take it!)
well.

I thought about doing one too but didn't fancy the getting the logo tattooed on my calf bit.

Do one that is the distance but not part of the franchise.

No_Ta_Doctor

A few more details leaking out now

Seems it's Saudi backed, of course

Unsurprising that Vaughters is enthusiastic, he's been banging on about alternative economic models for years. This model doesn't seem all that different from any other model of course, just that the Saudis might chuck vast sums of money at it. The races being "packaged" might make them slightly more valuable I suppose, but not through any notion that they're part of some year long competition

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/oct/28/elite-cycling-the-target-of-saudi-backed-champions-league-style-calendar

roscoe

No_Ta_Doctor said:

A few more details leaking out now

Seems it's Saudi backed, of course

Unsurprising that Vaughters is enthusiastic, he's been banging on about alternative economic models for years. This model doesn't seem all that different from any other model of course, just that the Saudis might chuck vast sums of money at it. The races being "packaged" might make them slightly more valuable I suppose, but not through any notion that they're part of some year long competition

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/oct/28/elite-cycling-the-target-of-saudi-backed-champions-league-style-calendar

The Radio Cycling podcast had a good discussion on it this week including interviews with Vaughters and Plugge. If I picked up on it correctly (was on in the background) ASO and the UCI seem keen.

According to Plugge the driver is making cycling a bigger sport as their rivals for sponsorship, tv etc are football, motor racing etc.

kingstongraham

It's about making cycling into a sport that people with too much money can understand having no understanding of it. There will be a season final in Neom no doubt, and people will care about it as much as they do the LIV tour.

In the process it could, of course, destroy the sport of cycling.

wallace_and_gromit

Deleted.

Pross

DeVlaeminck said:

wallace_and_gromit said:

Super League Triathlon have done something similar, I think the PTO have something set up as

The Ironman series appears to be viable on a long term standalone basis, which it out to be as Ironman entry fees and merch costs are extortionate. (But the Weekend Warriors like the cache of being an Ironman, as would I if my body would take it!)
well.

I thought about doing one too but didn't fancy the getting the logo tattooed on my calf bit.

Those tattoos have helped me to a few PBs over the years. If I see someone in front of me with one I have to overtake them! I wonder how many people have had one that haven't actually done an Ironman? My swimming isn't anywhere near good enough but even if it was I wouldn't be paying their entry fees.