Rate the race: 2023 Vuelta

rick_chasey

Rate this year's Vuelta.

We had, a TTT finish in the actual dark, we had the press right in the way of the finishers, we had police assaulting team staff, a race that had two finish lines and relying on the crowd on who finished where.

And after all that, the main bike race wasn't even a bike race; Jumbo dominated so convincingly their main threat was public pressure to allow their domestique to win the race.

Luckily the sprint sta....no, there wasn't even any competition for that either.

We can be pleased that on the rare occasion there was action, the TV director was sure to have missed it.

DeVlaeminck

Gave it 6 - can't be less given one of the closest GC battles for years.

wakemalcolm

Have to admit I've listened to more 'podcast polemica' than I've actually watched racing but at least the GC competition went into the final week this year.

Over the last couple of years it's been a difficult choice between: let the road decide/let the team decide/let Fred Wright decide 😉

mididoctors

They raced really fast across what was a very interesting parcour to produce one of the most tedious GT of the 21st century

Damaged by poor organisational decisions weather and sub standard coverage.

Remco's decision to Richard virenque it mid race didn't help. Was it cowardice or realism or a super off day? 🤷‍♂️

The race was still very hard . No lack of effort for most of the peloton but there was something tired about it all from the start .

Expectations for a good race were low from the get go ... it was worse.

High points on the odd stage .

Kuss's explosive attack on the tourmalet chasing down Jonas [saved his GC in the long run] go back and look at it. Was super impressive . That was half way up the tourmalet.

Rui winning made me laugh


The final day break in Madrid was decent racing .

Whatever the real story of Jumbo's internal politics was the outcome felt fake in the end which is sad for kuss. Jonas and rog should have let him win in a understated way. Still none of them did anything really wrong and they are all great cyclists who just had to navigate a awkward situation.

But the real killer for me is the race actually made me feel bad at times. Literally negative emotions of disappointment and sadness .

Lanterne_Rogue

It was all just a bit "meh", wasn't it? The organisation seemed to improve eventually - or perhaps we just stopped caring - but the race for GC got knocked on the head before it could get really interesting. Vingegaard is hardly the most convincing villain we'll ever see - he's never going to twirl his moustache and tie a virgin to the railway tracks if he can neaten up his bumfluff and have a nice afternoon out with her at a preserved steam railway instead - but at least we'd have had something to argue about.

Not really any tension - or interest - anywhere else either. Even Remco's implosion was met with a shrug - that just seems to be what he does in the highest mountains.

Long term JV's domination - apparently gifting grand tours at will - is going to be bad for the sport if nobody can challenge them.

No_Ta_Doctor

It was a race that could really have done with a few badly timed mechanicals in the last two weeks.

I've no issue with the winner or how he won, though it would have been nice to see Vingegaard off the leash and in full flight V Roglic. The debate was entirely tedious though and ridiculously polarised.

The sprints were won by the only sprinter who turned up, the mountains by whichever Jumbo rode to win that day, the breakaways by a rider that should have been challenging for GC

In the end, the race only had soap opera and scandal, which isn't really what I watch cycling for

kingstongraham

There were actually two stages that had dual finishing lines.

Nothing seemed very "grand" about it, did it?

andyp

I can't recall a duller GT, the only interesting aspect was the JV leadership conundrum, but that got tired very quickly.

The good thing is that this is peak Jumbo-Visma. It can only go one way after this.

pblakeney

Lanterne_Rogue said:

...
Not really any tension - or interest - anywhere else either. Even Remco's implosion was met with a shrug - that just seems to be what he does in the highest mountains.
...

Two points of tension that ultimately decided the jersey.
Kuss defending in the TT, and again on the Angliru*.
He was expected to lose it on the former, and Roglic wanted him to lose it on the latter.

*Edited as I'd named the wrong mtf.

Pross

No GC competition outside of one team, very few decent stages, terrible TV coverage, farcical stages at the start of the race. I now feel I've been too generous!

rick_chasey

andyp said:

I can't recall a duller GT, the only interesting aspect was the JV leadership conundrum, but that got tired very quickly.

The good thing is that this is peak Jumbo-Visma. It can only go one way after this.

What a peak tbf.

Snatching the Giro, convincingly winning the Tour and utterly dominating the Vuelta.

The most successful GT campaign in a year by a long way.

Lanterne_Rogue

pblakeney said:

Lanterne_Rogue said:

...
Not really any tension - or interest - anywhere else either. Even Remco's implosion was met with a shrug - that just seems to be what he does in the highest mountains.
...

Two points of tension that ultimately decided the jersey.
Kuss defending in the TT, and again on the Tourmalet.
He was expected to lose it on the former, and Roglic wanted him to lose it on the latter.

That he lost time on both only made it obvious that the winner of this year's race would be decided by Jumbo-Visma's management. and consequently was where I lost interest totally. I'm not one of those who say it was gifted - Kuss earned the right to win it - but knowing it'll be decided on the team bus is an unsatisfactory position to be in as a fan.

gethinceri

Bad organisation, bad broadcasting.
Uncompetitive, uninteresting.

rick_chasey

gethinceri said:

Bad organisation, bad broadcasting.
Uncompetitive, uninteresting.

Why score it so highly?

gethinceri

rick_chasey said:

gethinceri said:

Bad organisation, bad broadcasting.
Uncompetitive, uninteresting.

Why score it so highly?

I enjoyed a few stages, so I thought it worth a 3/10

mididoctors

rick_chasey said:

andyp said:

I can't recall a duller GT, the only interesting aspect was the JV leadership conundrum, but that got tired very quickly.

The good thing is that this is peak Jumbo-Visma. It can only go one way after this.

What a peak tbf.

Snatching the Giro, convincingly winning the Tour and utterly dominating the Vuelta.

The most successful GT campaign in a year by a long way.

Ever by any team I can remember

pblakeney

And people thought Sky were boring. 😉

No_Ta_Doctor

Lanterne_Rogue said:

pblakeney said:

Lanterne_Rogue said:

...
Not really any tension - or interest - anywhere else either. Even Remco's implosion was met with a shrug - that just seems to be what he does in the highest mountains.
...

Two points of tension that ultimately decided the jersey.
Kuss defending in the TT, and again on the Tourmalet.
He was expected to lose it on the former, and Roglic wanted him to lose it on the latter.

That he lost time on both only made it obvious that the winner of this year's race would be decided by Jumbo-Visma's management. and consequently was where I lost interest totally. I'm not one of those who say it was gifted - Kuss earned the right to win it - but knowing it'll be decided on the team bus is an unsatisfactory position to be in as a fan.

I'm not convinced it was decided by management. Jonas could have taken it at pretty much any point - certainly on Angliru - if he'd wanted. There was clearly little from management to stop attacks there. I think he didn't because he'd have genuinely felt bad about it, and didn't want that. Roglic had little say in the matter once Jonas had marked him out on Angliru, he was never going to get that time over Jonas.

m.r.m.

If this GT isn't a 1/10 I'm not sure any GT can ever be a 1/10 and scoring should just be from 5 to 10.

m.r.m.

No_Ta_Doctor said:

Lanterne_Rogue said:

pblakeney said:

Lanterne_Rogue said:

...
Not really any tension - or interest - anywhere else either. Even Remco's implosion was met with a shrug - that just seems to be what he does in the highest mountains.
...

Two points of tension that ultimately decided the jersey.
Kuss defending in the TT, and again on the Tourmalet.
He was expected to lose it on the former, and Roglic wanted him to lose it on the latter.

That he lost time on both only made it obvious that the winner of this year's race would be decided by Jumbo-Visma's management. and consequently was where I lost interest totally. I'm not one of those who say it was gifted - Kuss earned the right to win it - but knowing it'll be decided on the team bus is an unsatisfactory position to be in as a fan.

I'm not convinced it was decided by management. Jonas could have taken it at pretty much any point - certainly on Angliru - if he'd wanted. There was clearly little from management to stop attacks there. I think he didn't because he'd have genuinely felt bad about it, and didn't want that. Roglic had little say in the matter once Jonas had marked him out on Angliru, he was never going to get that time over Jonas.

This is probably accurate. There have been multiple reports stating that Vingegaard had wanted to support Kuss from the very beginning and never intended to ever attack him.

I also understand Roglic though. He was the leader. Kuss was allowed up the road as a tactic and then suddenly he was not allowed to race for the win any more just because the opposition was so woeful. GC leaders probably think now why they should acquiesce to allowing teammates up the road if this is the result. 🫣😂

pblakeney

From the PTP thread. I'm getting confused now.
.

pblakeney said:

m.r.m. said:

Roglic probably should attack a little more towards the beginning of a grand tour. Otherwise this Situation is repeatable (probably not with Kuss who won't be allowed up the road any more) with a strong teammate taking time, becoming the leader on the road and that gap not being closable just with bonus seconds.

I'm not sure that Kuss was "allowed up the road". I think they expected other teams to chase, but they didn't.

m.r.m.

Kuss was allowed up the road by the other teams. They would have chased Vingegaard or Roglic trying the same.

Maybe to clarify: Kuss was allowed up the road by the other teams and sent up the road by Jumbo Visma.

pblakeney

m.r.m. said:

Kuss was allowed up the road by the other teams. They would have chased Vingegaard or Roglic trying the same.

Maybe to clarify: Kuss was allowed up the road by the other teams and sent up the road by Jumbo Visma.

Yup. I don't blame Jumbo for killing the race, I blame the other teams for not racing.
I suppose the counter is Jumbo are in another league, but they could have shown more.

Pross

I find the 6/10 ratings a bit odd, that would make this race above average. I'd love to know if those giving it over 5 genuinely feel it was an above average race.

kingstongraham

Pross said:

I find the 6/10 ratings a bit odd, that would make this race above average. I'd love to know if those giving it over 5 genuinely feel it was an above average race.

Some of the scenery was pretty?

mididoctors

m.r.m. said:

If this GT isn't a 1/10 I'm not sure any GT can ever be a 1/10 and scoring should just be from 5 to 10.

2004 giro was worse

TheBigBean

Was it worse than the 2012 tour?

mididoctors

kingstongraham said:

Pross said:

I find the 6/10 ratings a bit odd, that would make this race above average. I'd love to know if those giving it over 5 genuinely feel it was an above average race.

Some of the scenery was pretty?

Tbf one of those is a bit of a joke

salsiccia1

Poor race this time round. A couple of good individual stages, and against all usual expectations the final stage was exciting, but otherwise the race was a bit 'whatever'. The lack of any challenge from, well, anyone else made it very sterile and the Jumbo polemic actually made it worse.

Seeing one team win all three GTs is something remarkable, and I'm glad it's happened but I don't want to see it again.

kingstongraham

It was good when it was in France.

No_Ta_Doctor

m.r.m. said:

If this GT isn't a 1/10 I'm not sure any GT can ever be a 1/10 and scoring should just be from 5 to 10.

I'm not sure it can be 1/10 when it's a unique and significant achievement from Jumbo. The racing wasn't much cop, but the result was historical.