La Vuelta 2023: Stage 10:- Valladolid to Valladolid, 25.8km ITT ***Spoilers***
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I think this is his ideal opportunity - low stress because if he doesn't win it, there's two backup options in his team. Also it's only the Vuelta.rick_chasey said:
The story around Kuss was always he had the talent but not the head, so we'll see if the head holds strong.blazing_saddles said:If Roglic is to win this, Kuss is going to have to throw the race.
Nowhere near enough TT kms for the amount of climbing to make much difference in the overall of this Vuelta.
Hope he does it.0 -
Could be a jumbo top 3 if they play their cards right.0
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Or a UAE top 30
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Less likely, but I forgot that Soler had been given a head start as well.kingstongraham said:Or a UAE top 3
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It's not a bad race considering the organisation fubars and terrible coverage"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0
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Certainly hard to call"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0
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Isn't that the exact same explanation for Vingegaard's emergence from nowhere?rick_chasey said:
The story around Kuss was always he had the talent but not the head, so we'll see if the head holds strong.blazing_saddles said:If Roglic is to win this, Kuss is going to have to throw the race.
Nowhere near enough TT kms for the amount of climbing to make much difference in the overall of this Vuelta.0 -
I'm looking forward to the Grand Tour equivalent of Quick Step v StannardTheBigBean said:Could be a jumbo top 3 if they play their cards right.
Twitter: @RichN951 -
Only a few weeks ago I was watching JV put ~4 mins into Rodriguez and Castroviejo in Combloux, also hammering some top TT guys including Pogacar… what happened today?0
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I'm puzzled how Kuss is only 4th favourite. How can Evenepoel gain time back?0
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They didn't go up a great big hill.twotoebenny said:Only a few weeks ago I was watching JV put ~4 mins into Rodriguez and Castroviejo in Combloux, also hammering some top TT guys including Pogacar… what happened today?
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He was at his peak at the Tour. He's not now. Winning the Tour and the Vuelta in the same season is hard, and has only been done once before.twotoebenny said:Only a few weeks ago I was watching JV put ~4 mins into Rodriguez and Castroviejo in Combloux, also hammering some top TT guys including Pogacar… what happened today?
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Don’t think so, with Vinegergaard it was more a case of no one outside Denmark but JV noticed him.DeadCalm said:
Isn't that the exact same explanation for Vingegaard's emergence from nowhere?rick_chasey said:
The story around Kuss was always he had the talent but not the head, so we'll see if the head holds strong.blazing_saddles said:If Roglic is to win this, Kuss is going to have to throw the race.
Nowhere near enough TT kms for the amount of climbing to make much difference in the overall of this Vuelta.1 -
He can’t, today was his stageTheBigBean said:I'm puzzled how Kuss is only 4th favourite. How can Evenepoel gain time back?
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JV could genuinely still be sub-par post Tour. A month is not a long time for recovery.twotoebenny said:Only a few weeks ago I was watching JV put ~4 mins into Rodriguez and Castroviejo in Combloux, also hammering some top TT guys including Pogacar… what happened today?
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Or JV might have had to share his “special weetabix” with Roglic and Kuss.0
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andyp said:
He was at his peak at the Tour. He's not now. Winning the Tour and the Vuelta in the same season is hard, and has only been done once before.twotoebenny said:Only a few weeks ago I was watching JV put ~4 mins into Rodriguez and Castroviejo in Combloux, also hammering some top TT guys including Pogacar… what happened today?
So how do you explain Kuss?andyp said:
He was at his peak at the Tour. He's not now. Winning the Tour and the Vuelta in the same season is hard, and has only been done once before.twotoebenny said:Only a few weeks ago I was watching JV put ~4 mins into Rodriguez and Castroviejo in Combloux, also hammering some top TT guys including Pogacar… what happened today?
He was comfortably inside the top 10 of the Tour until the final road stage, then dropped a shed load of time just prior to Paris.
He was rolling in a minute behind his team leader during that final, awful week of the Giro and finished 6th in the ITT. He finished both those GTs inside the top 15. Not bad for a domestique, however deluxe he is.
This is his 3rd GT, now appears to be peaking and unless his form varnishes in the 3rd week, should not be beaten."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Got tiredtwotoebenny said:Only a few weeks ago I was watching JV put ~4 mins into Rodriguez and Castroviejo in Combloux, also hammering some top TT guys including Pogacar… what happened today?
"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
He is strong rider who rides with in him self most days unless needed for a specific taskblazing_saddles said:andyp said:
He was at his peak at the Tour. He's not now. Winning the Tour and the Vuelta in the same season is hard, and has only been done once before.twotoebenny said:Only a few weeks ago I was watching JV put ~4 mins into Rodriguez and Castroviejo in Combloux, also hammering some top TT guys including Pogacar… what happened today?
So how do you explain Kuss?andyp said:
He was at his peak at the Tour. He's not now. Winning the Tour and the Vuelta in the same season is hard, and has only been done once before.twotoebenny said:Only a few weeks ago I was watching JV put ~4 mins into Rodriguez and Castroviejo in Combloux, also hammering some top TT guys including Pogacar… what happened today?
He was comfortably inside the top 10 of the Tour until the final road stage, then dropped a shed load of time just prior to Paris.
He was rolling in a minute behind his team leader during that final, awful week of the Giro and finished 6th in the ITT. He finished both those GTs inside the top 15. Not bad for a domestique, however deluxe he is.
This is his 3rd GT, now appears to be peaking and unless his form varnishes in the 3rd week, should not be beaten."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Riding top 10 (when you have the physiology to compete for the win) is a completely different kettle of fish than actually competing for the win. Rolling in a few minutes down is substantially less effort in terms of RPE and will definitely allow you to recover faster.blazing_saddles said:andyp said:
He was at his peak at the Tour. He's not now. Winning the Tour and the Vuelta in the same season is hard, and has only been done once before.twotoebenny said:Only a few weeks ago I was watching JV put ~4 mins into Rodriguez and Castroviejo in Combloux, also hammering some top TT guys including Pogacar… what happened today?
So how do you explain Kuss?andyp said:
He was at his peak at the Tour. He's not now. Winning the Tour and the Vuelta in the same season is hard, and has only been done once before.twotoebenny said:Only a few weeks ago I was watching JV put ~4 mins into Rodriguez and Castroviejo in Combloux, also hammering some top TT guys including Pogacar… what happened today?
He was comfortably inside the top 10 of the Tour until the final road stage, then dropped a shed load of time just prior to Paris.
He was rolling in a minute behind his team leader during that final, awful week of the Giro and finished 6th in the ITT. He finished both those GTs inside the top 15. Not bad for a domestique, however deluxe he is.
This is his 3rd GT, now appears to be peaking and unless his form varnishes in the 3rd week, should not be beaten.
All of us can see this for ourselves. Ride your absolute max on a 5 minute climb and then do that same climb in 6-7 min. The difference is night and day in terms of RPE.
Race tactics play a further role. Kuss and Soler were given a head start and gained time because they were allowed to. They both shipped time in the ITT albeit less than expected. Without the "gifted" time, Kuss would no longer be in contention (outside of the "true" contenders having a Pogacar crash and burn day on one of the hard stages).
No intention of taking anything away from Kuss. Sometimes life throws you a bone and you need to make the best of it.PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 20231 -
The only thing that makes me think Kuss wont win is stage 20. Which basically looks like a very hard one day race, but no big climbs. It’s 10 (ten) cat 3s over 200kms.
Has Remco written all over it. And Roglic.0 -
Not exactly the same, but similar. With Vingegaard, it was apparently nerves. It was the explanation for why Vingegaard won absolutely nothing until he was 22 despite possessing an incredible engine.Pross said:
Don’t think so, with Vinegergaard it was more a case of no one outside Denmark but JV noticed him.DeadCalm said:
Isn't that the exact same explanation for Vingegaard's emergence from nowhere?rick_chasey said:
The story around Kuss was always he had the talent but not the head, so we'll see if the head holds strong.blazing_saddles said:If Roglic is to win this, Kuss is going to have to throw the race.
Nowhere near enough TT kms for the amount of climbing to make much difference in the overall of this Vuelta.0 -
Did you watch the TDF? He was riding for his own GC position as well as working for Vingegaard. He was definitely not riding within himself.mididoctors said:
He is strong rider who rides with in him self most days unless needed for a specific taskblazing_saddles said:andyp said:
He was at his peak at the Tour. He's not now. Winning the Tour and the Vuelta in the same season is hard, and has only been done once before.twotoebenny said:Only a few weeks ago I was watching JV put ~4 mins into Rodriguez and Castroviejo in Combloux, also hammering some top TT guys including Pogacar… what happened today?
So how do you explain Kuss?andyp said:
He was at his peak at the Tour. He's not now. Winning the Tour and the Vuelta in the same season is hard, and has only been done once before.twotoebenny said:Only a few weeks ago I was watching JV put ~4 mins into Rodriguez and Castroviejo in Combloux, also hammering some top TT guys including Pogacar… what happened today?
He was comfortably inside the top 10 of the Tour until the final road stage, then dropped a shed load of time just prior to Paris.
He was rolling in a minute behind his team leader during that final, awful week of the Giro and finished 6th in the ITT. He finished both those GTs inside the top 15. Not bad for a domestique, however deluxe he is.
This is his 3rd GT, now appears to be peaking and unless his form varnishes in the 3rd week, should not be beaten.0 -
By riding within himself, do you mean being the third man on a climb along with Vingegaard and Pogacar?mididoctors said:
He is strong rider who rides with in him self most days unless needed for a specific taskblazing_saddles said:andyp said:
He was at his peak at the Tour. He's not now. Winning the Tour and the Vuelta in the same season is hard, and has only been done once before.twotoebenny said:Only a few weeks ago I was watching JV put ~4 mins into Rodriguez and Castroviejo in Combloux, also hammering some top TT guys including Pogacar… what happened today?
So how do you explain Kuss?andyp said:
He was at his peak at the Tour. He's not now. Winning the Tour and the Vuelta in the same season is hard, and has only been done once before.twotoebenny said:Only a few weeks ago I was watching JV put ~4 mins into Rodriguez and Castroviejo in Combloux, also hammering some top TT guys including Pogacar… what happened today?
He was comfortably inside the top 10 of the Tour until the final road stage, then dropped a shed load of time just prior to Paris.
He was rolling in a minute behind his team leader during that final, awful week of the Giro and finished 6th in the ITT. He finished both those GTs inside the top 15. Not bad for a domestique, however deluxe he is.
This is his 3rd GT, now appears to be peaking and unless his form varnishes in the 3rd week, should not be beaten.
If so, I agree.
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Obviously as we're talking about pro cycling it pays to be suspicious, but in the Tour, Kuss was regularly shipping 2-3 minutes to Vingo on the key stages. (Not sure where you get your "third man" concept from. I assume it is rhetorical rather than factual.) That's the difference between going flat out and at 95% on the final climb, which is huge in terms of cumulative fatigue and recovery.blazing_saddles said:
By riding within himself, do you mean being the third man on a climb along with Vingegaard and Pogacar?mididoctors said:
He is strong rider who rides with in him self most days unless needed for a specific taskblazing_saddles said:andyp said:
He was at his peak at the Tour. He's not now. Winning the Tour and the Vuelta in the same season is hard, and has only been done once before.twotoebenny said:Only a few weeks ago I was watching JV put ~4 mins into Rodriguez and Castroviejo in Combloux, also hammering some top TT guys including Pogacar… what happened today?
So how do you explain Kuss?andyp said:
He was at his peak at the Tour. He's not now. Winning the Tour and the Vuelta in the same season is hard, and has only been done once before.twotoebenny said:Only a few weeks ago I was watching JV put ~4 mins into Rodriguez and Castroviejo in Combloux, also hammering some top TT guys including Pogacar… what happened today?
He was comfortably inside the top 10 of the Tour until the final road stage, then dropped a shed load of time just prior to Paris.
He was rolling in a minute behind his team leader during that final, awful week of the Giro and finished 6th in the ITT. He finished both those GTs inside the top 15. Not bad for a domestique, however deluxe he is.
This is his 3rd GT, now appears to be peaking and unless his form varnishes in the 3rd week, should not be beaten.
If so, I agree.0 -
👆thiswallace_and_gromit said:
Obviously as we're talking about pro cycling it pays to be suspicious, but in the Tour, Kuss was regularly shipping 2-3 minutes to Vingo on the key stages. (Not sure where you get your "third man" concept from. I assume it is rhetorical rather than factual.) That's the difference between going flat out and at 95% on the final climb, which is huge in terms of cumulative fatigue and recovery.blazing_saddles said:
By riding within himself, do you mean being the third man on a climb along with Vingegaard and Pogacar?mididoctors said:
He is strong rider who rides with in him self most days unless needed for a specific taskblazing_saddles said:andyp said:
He was at his peak at the Tour. He's not now. Winning the Tour and the Vuelta in the same season is hard, and has only been done once before.twotoebenny said:Only a few weeks ago I was watching JV put ~4 mins into Rodriguez and Castroviejo in Combloux, also hammering some top TT guys including Pogacar… what happened today?
So how do you explain Kuss?andyp said:
He was at his peak at the Tour. He's not now. Winning the Tour and the Vuelta in the same season is hard, and has only been done once before.twotoebenny said:Only a few weeks ago I was watching JV put ~4 mins into Rodriguez and Castroviejo in Combloux, also hammering some top TT guys including Pogacar… what happened today?
He was comfortably inside the top 10 of the Tour until the final road stage, then dropped a shed load of time just prior to Paris.
He was rolling in a minute behind his team leader during that final, awful week of the Giro and finished 6th in the ITT. He finished both those GTs inside the top 15. Not bad for a domestique, however deluxe he is.
This is his 3rd GT, now appears to be peaking and unless his form varnishes in the 3rd week, should not be beaten.
If so, I agree."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Also, as he was not the leader, he would barely have to do any media or podium stuff so more recovery versus the top guys. Still incredibly impressive recovery for the third grand tour of the year though!0
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Indeed. Hence my comment about it always paying to be suspicious!commuterlegs said:Still incredibly impressive recovery for the third grand tour of the year though!
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As Vingegaard's last man, Kuss would have been going flat out until he couldn't stay with him. That was his job. On the vast majority of the key stages, that was for most of the final climb.wallace_and_gromit said:
Obviously as we're talking about pro cycling it pays to be suspicious, but in the Tour, Kuss was regularly shipping 2-3 minutes to Vingo on the key stages. (Not sure where you get your "third man" concept from. I assume it is rhetorical rather than factual.) That's the difference between going flat out and at 95% on the final climb, which is huge in terms of cumulative fatigue and recovery.blazing_saddles said:
By riding within himself, do you mean being the third man on a climb along with Vingegaard and Pogacar?mididoctors said:
He is strong rider who rides with in him self most days unless needed for a specific taskblazing_saddles said:andyp said:
He was at his peak at the Tour. He's not now. Winning the Tour and the Vuelta in the same season is hard, and has only been done once before.twotoebenny said:Only a few weeks ago I was watching JV put ~4 mins into Rodriguez and Castroviejo in Combloux, also hammering some top TT guys including Pogacar… what happened today?
So how do you explain Kuss?andyp said:
He was at his peak at the Tour. He's not now. Winning the Tour and the Vuelta in the same season is hard, and has only been done once before.twotoebenny said:Only a few weeks ago I was watching JV put ~4 mins into Rodriguez and Castroviejo in Combloux, also hammering some top TT guys including Pogacar… what happened today?
He was comfortably inside the top 10 of the Tour until the final road stage, then dropped a shed load of time just prior to Paris.
He was rolling in a minute behind his team leader during that final, awful week of the Giro and finished 6th in the ITT. He finished both those GTs inside the top 15. Not bad for a domestique, however deluxe he is.
This is his 3rd GT, now appears to be peaking and unless his form varnishes in the 3rd week, should not be beaten.
If so, I agree.
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On the first mountain stage to Laruns, on the final climb, who dropped everybody and isolated Pogacar, before Vingegaard dropped Pogacar? A 3 man group.wallace_and_gromit said:
Obviously as we're talking about pro cycling it pays to be suspicious, but in the Tour, Kuss was regularly shipping 2-3 minutes to Vingo on the key stages. (Not sure where you get your "third man" concept from. I assume it is rhetorical rather than factual.) That's the difference between going flat out and at 95% on the final climb, which is huge in terms of cumulative fatigue and recovery.blazing_saddles said:
By riding within himself, do you mean being the third man on a climb along with Vingegaard and Pogacar?mididoctors said:
He is strong rider who rides with in him self most days unless needed for a specific taskblazing_saddles said:andyp said:
He was at his peak at the Tour. He's not now. Winning the Tour and the Vuelta in the same season is hard, and has only been done once before.twotoebenny said:Only a few weeks ago I was watching JV put ~4 mins into Rodriguez and Castroviejo in Combloux, also hammering some top TT guys including Pogacar… what happened today?
So how do you explain Kuss?andyp said:
He was at his peak at the Tour. He's not now. Winning the Tour and the Vuelta in the same season is hard, and has only been done once before.twotoebenny said:Only a few weeks ago I was watching JV put ~4 mins into Rodriguez and Castroviejo in Combloux, also hammering some top TT guys including Pogacar… what happened today?
He was comfortably inside the top 10 of the Tour until the final road stage, then dropped a shed load of time just prior to Paris.
He was rolling in a minute behind his team leader during that final, awful week of the Giro and finished 6th in the ITT. He finished both those GTs inside the top 15. Not bad for a domestique, however deluxe he is.
This is his 3rd GT, now appears to be peaking and unless his form varnishes in the 3rd week, should not be beaten.
If so, I agree.
Kuss finished that stage on the ST as the Slovenian.
Who repeated the process on the Tourmalet, the following day, again isolating Pogacar? Another 3 man group. However, Kuss did ship 3 minutes that day.....along with Gall, both Yates and Gaudu.
Hence the third man reference.
Anyhow, If he's managing all of that while only using 95% of his available power, it's no wonder he's leading, despite this being his eighth grand tour week of the year."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0
