carbon rims from the factory

ugo.santalucia

Just got delivery of these, direct from GoZone. They claim to be UCI tested and they are pretty much the only carbon clinchers I could find in this weight range. They are 365g each, 30 mm deep and 25 mm wide. These are clinchers only, but obviously they also offer the tubeless version.
They are allegedly made using high Tg resin, 250 degrees or something like that. I am not overly concerned about the braking, they will be used for time trials and hill climbs only (mostly).
Just thought someone might be interested in a different option, should you want to go that route.
Basically contacted the factory, liaised by email, payed with Paypal and crossed my fingers. 4 weeks later DPD delivered them. No tax, which was included in the invoice they sent. Price was in USD, on the day it worked out at £ 212 all included.

mrb123

What hubs are you going to use?

shirley_basso

Why so shallow for TT?

ugo.santalucia

Bitex hubs... and I wanted light rims for hill climbs... time trials are a season filler, but I don't love them. I just don't enjoy the arms race for the ultimate drag coefficient, I don't even own a skinsuit. 40 mm and over were significantly heavier, hence these.

bobones

Nice, good price that. I am tempted to build a light set too. What spokes and nipples are you going to use? Assuming 20F/24R, these should come out at 1195g with CX-Rays (£2.60 ea) or 1265g with ACI Alpina DB (50p ea) with alu nipples and Bitex RAF 10/RAR 9 hubs. Even with brass nips and the cheaper spokes they should still be sub 1300g.

ugo.santalucia

bobones said:

Nice, good price that. I am tempted to build a light set too. What spokes and nipples are you going to use? Assuming 20F/24R, these should come out at 1195g with CX-Rays (£2.60 ea) or 1265g with ACI Alpina DB (50p ea) with alu nipples and Bitex RAF 10/RAR 9 hubs. Even with brass nips and the cheaper spokes they should still be sub 1300g.

The rims weigh the same as the Kinlin xr200 and those wheels came to 1320 with Laser spokes and alloy nipples for 24/28. These are the same 24/28, so they will weigh the same. Going 20/24 would save about 40-50 grams in spokes and nipples, so 1270g. I won't use CX-Ray as they are way too expensive for the nano-scopic benefits they bring. I do like the Kinlin wheels, but the rims are so narrow they make the tyres way too narrow too, so problems with grip on less than perfectly dry roads.

ugo.santalucia

these are the rims, if interested
https://www.go-zonebike.com/products-detail-405684

ugo.santalucia

imposter2.0

If weight is a consideration, why not go tubular..?

ugo.santalucia

imposter2.0 said:

If weight is a consideration, why not go tubular..?

I did think long and hard and decided against tubulars. I look at which tubs I could buy, the market has shrunk considerably… the Tufo ones I wanted can only be ordered from the EU… Conti and Vittoria are quite heavy, unless you go for the TT versions which have zero protection. I also think they are on the way out as even pro cyclists now prefer to use tubeless.
I though for the sake os a combined 100g over two wheels, I could spare myself the hassle

i.bhamra

Looks like you'll end up with a nice, light, set of wheels. At the risk of opening up a can of worms, why did you decide not to go with tubeless compatible rims? Is there a risk that availability and variety of non-tubeless clincher tyres will eventually dwindle in the same way as you describe for tubulars?

whyamihere

i.bhamra said:

Looks like you'll end up with a nice, light, set of wheels. At the risk of opening up a can of worms, why did you decide not to go with tubeless compatible rims? Is there a risk that availability and variety of non-tubeless clincher tyres will eventually dwindle in the same way as you describe for tubulars?

Nothing stops you running tubeless tyres with tubes, it's just a tiny bit heavier.

ugo.santalucia

i.bhamra said:

Looks like you'll end up with a nice, light, set of wheels. At the risk of opening up a can of worms, why did you decide not to go with tubeless compatible rims? Is there a risk that availability and variety of non-tubeless clincher tyres will eventually dwindle in the same way as you describe for tubulars?

Clinchers only, reason is tyres are much easier to fit than on tubeless rims. In fact the GP 5000 everyone complain about went on with no tools needed.
I don’t think clinchers and tubes will disappear in the foreseeable future. TPU tubes are the proof that there is still an interest in tubed tyres. What might happen is that some top end tyres might come out as tubeless only.
The problem with tubulars is that it is all happening already. Can’t find very much, hardly anything under 250g and what you do find at the top end is around 80 pounds a piece or more, which is more than I paid for my car tyres last year. I paid the GP5000 clinchers less than half that

i.bhamra

I

whyamihere said:

Nothing stops you running tubeless tyres with tubes, it's just a tiny bit heavier.

Sure, you could also use tubeless compatible rims with non tubeless tyres and tubes.

I was just interested to hear reasons to choose not to have the tubeless option when going for a new set of wheels. Is there a significant weight saving, cost difference, is it the perceived faff associated with tubeless etc...

I run both tubeless and tubed wheelsets, I even occasionally use tubs. The tubed clincher only and tubulars are older wheels that are perfectly useable but when the eventually reach the end of their usable life I'd most likely replace with tubeless compatible.

super_davo

A clincher plus a TPU tube has got to be close to 100g less than an equivalent tubular, almost offsetting the difference in rim weight. Plus it's well publicised that the rolling resistance is lower too.

You can get some good deals on secondhand tubular wheel / tyres so if you wanted to build a race bike on a budget they might make sense for that, but I think it would be nuts for amateurs to buy new.

I don't think tubes are going away, ever (speaking as a tubeless user). Tubeless just doesn't make sense in some applications

ugo.santalucia

I have used all standards and still prefer an old fashioned rim, where mounting a tyre doesn’t require a fight. The rare puncture can be dealt with no drama if you know it is easy to do… with carbon especially, you want to avoid using tools and crack the rim, hence my choice.

charlie_potatoes

whyamihere said:

Nothing stops you running tubeless tyres with tubes, it's just a tiny bit heavier.

A TPU tube is probably lighter than a tubeless valve and the sealant.

whyamihere

charlie_potatoes said:

whyamihere said:

Nothing stops you running tubeless tyres with tubes, it's just a tiny bit heavier.

A TPU tube is probably lighter than a tubeless valve and the sealant.

Yep, they are lighter. I have a set of tubeless wheels with tubeless tyres running TPU tubes. Now that those tubes exist, I'm over road tubeless. I'll use the tubeless tyres I already have until they're worn out, but I'll do it with tubes in them.

mrb123

whyamihere said:

charlie_potatoes said:

whyamihere said:

Nothing stops you running tubeless tyres with tubes, it's just a tiny bit heavier.

A TPU tube is probably lighter than a tubeless valve and the sealant.

Yep, they are lighter. I have a set of tubeless wheels with tubeless tyres running TPU tubes. Now that those tubes exist, I'm over road tubeless. I'll use the tubeless tyres I already have until they're worn out, but I'll do it with tubes in them.

What brand of the tubes do you favour?

whyamihere

I've got the RideNow ones from Ali Express. I haven't used them enough to be comfortable recommending them personally, but many other people are using them happily.

super_davo

whyamihere said:

charlie_potatoes said:

whyamihere said:

Nothing stops you running tubeless tyres with tubes, it's just a tiny bit heavier.

A TPU tube is probably lighter than a tubeless valve and the sealant.

Yep, they are lighter. I have a set of tubeless wheels with tubeless tyres running TPU tubes. Now that those tubes exist, I'm over road tubeless. I'll use the tubeless tyres I already have until they're worn out, but I'll do it with tubes in them.

Based on my experience, the ride on tubeless over 28mm is sublime, especially when running well under 60psi which for me makes it worth persevering with.

However at the pressures I need to run 25mm at, you don't get the same comfort & rolling resistance, so might as well run considerably cheaper tubed tyres. Plus sealant just doesn't work so well at higher pressures and particularly worms if you get a larger cut (and after cuts... I am now running my 25mm GP5000TRs with RideNow tubes in).

If you're heavier than me (67kg) then that "under 60psi" sweetspot for tubeless is likely to need 30 or 32mm, which on most rims end up with a horrible lightbulb profile that's as aero as a barn door.

pblakeney

Not to mention that from what I've seen currently tubed tyres are on offer for roughly 50% the cost of the tubeless equivalent. Good time to stock up if you're going to persevere.

shirley_basso

Low pressure tubeless feels like the "fix" to correct the ride discomfort from disc brakes.

25mm tyres on 17mm internal at 80PSIF/85R rarely causes my 75kg any issues

whyamihere

super_davo said:

whyamihere said:

charlie_potatoes said:

whyamihere said:

Nothing stops you running tubeless tyres with tubes, it's just a tiny bit heavier.

A TPU tube is probably lighter than a tubeless valve and the sealant.

Yep, they are lighter. I have a set of tubeless wheels with tubeless tyres running TPU tubes. Now that those tubes exist, I'm over road tubeless. I'll use the tubeless tyres I already have until they're worn out, but I'll do it with tubes in them.

Based on my experience, the ride on tubeless over 28mm is sublime, especially when running well under 60psi which for me makes it worth persevering with.

However at the pressures I need to run 25mm at, you don't get the same comfort & rolling resistance, so might as well run considerably cheaper tubed tyres. Plus sealant just doesn't work so well at higher pressures and particularly worms if you get a larger cut (and after cuts... I am now running my 25mm GP5000TRs with RideNow tubes in).

If you're heavier than me (67kg) then that "under 60psi" sweetspot for tubeless is likely to need 30 or 32mm, which on most rims end up with a horrible lightbulb profile that's as aero as a barn door.

This is basically it. I'm still tubeless on my gravel bike and mountain bikes where I can make use of the ability to run lower pressures. I'm significantly larger than you though, so on road it doesn't really work for me.

ugo.santalucia

Anyway, test ridden this morning… they are lovely things, pick up speed like nothing and brake really well in dry conditions (Shimano carbon rims pads). The braking noise is quite pleasant, I can probably record it and sell it to Tesla for their cars software. Inevitably given the season, a mad squirrel decided to test my front wheel and came out worse off… we are encouraged to cull the greys, so I am doing my bit for conservation.